Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Folks, if you want to talk about housing supply needs in Boston, we have threads for that. If you want to talk political-economy of the United States, make a thread in general.

EDIT: To clarify, talk about whatever you want as it pertains to this project. If the thread is going to get derailed with with trollish obsessions, that line of convo is going to get shut down. Please utilize the 'report' function rather than feeding the derailment.
 
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Johnnyrocket891 said:
Why would does Millennium Partners have to shorted the second tower? There is plenty of demand for housing.

There is still a housing shortage in Mass?
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Because going vertical is really fucking expensive and it is not clear that more "affordable" units would be able to cover the costs or would not adversely affect the marketability of the tower itself to the clientele MP wants to sell or rent too.
 
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back to the architecture of the whole thing -- since that's supposedly the point of this forum: this thing is and continues to be the ugliest proposal in my lifetime. utter garbage.
 
^if this is the ugliest proposal then what do you think of millennium tower?
 
It's thick and columnar. Do think that the reduction of the appended 2nd tower makes it better. Millennium did a good job with MT, but then again, that tower was looking pretty good from the starting renders.
 
A few questions to move along the thinking process:
Is there really a housing crisis in Boston for high rent units?
Is "blackmailing" developers and calling it an incentive the only or best way Boston can build more affordable units downtown?
Can anyone really tell at this point whether or not this tower will enhance the skyline from any particular view? If so when you're on the Greenway walking along, do you really notice background towers? I know that I don't pay much attention to the newest tall towers when they are clad in shades of black glass (I actually hate the Dalton St. Tower; height isn't everything). I know some of you are screaming "heretic" but give me the Govt. Center garage development any day. Downtown has enough dark towers. Hopefully Winthrop's final iteration will offset the criticism of it being bulky.
 
Bring back Accordias design!! /s

This is a huge building, floorplate wise. It'd be difficult to make this look exceptionally proportional both by itself at its current height and next to its neighbors.
 
If a city agrees to sell a parcel to a private corp -- Would there be something in the purchase and sales agreement that would prevent the corporation from changing the size & scope of the original proposal?
 
George_Apley said:
It's thick and columnar. Do think that the reduction of the appended 2nd tower makes it better. Millennium did a good job with MT, but then again, that tower was looking pretty good from the starting renders.
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I agree this building seems way clunkier but it does bear a strong resemblance to MT. I liked the second building or wing as it was, for density and it made the view from Dewey sq remarkably better IMO, as others have stated.
 
stefal said:
Bring back Accordias design!! /s

This is a huge building, floorplate wise. It'd be difficult to make this look exceptionally proportional both by itself at its current height and next to its neighbors.
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Hey now, I loved Accordia's proposal. They even bid at the actual FAA height and included the "required" real observation deck. I will say that I think this looks infinitely better without the grafted on second "tower". I agree if they can stream line the base a bit more, I think it's a significant improvement, especially if the loss of condos (and conversion to rentals) does not effect the payment to the city.
 
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I'll say again, as long as graft and NIMBY payoffs are part of the cost of doing business don't expect a Taj Mahal type development to be built anywhere in the city. You can have an expensive design, or you can ask for $200M for affordable housing, park maintenance, and other such add ons, but you can't have both. The financials aren't there especially given the height restrictions on the city. This proposal is really good considering the money they paid out to build. That money was a requirement to get anything built taller than 400 ft. There may have been better proposals but its doubtful any of them get constructed. Only the promise of big dollars made the shadow law change happen.
 
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bakgwailo said:
Hey now, I loved Accordia's proposal. They even bid at the actual FAA height and included the "required:" real observation deck. I will say that I think this looks infinitely better with the grafted on second "tower". I agree if they can stream line the base a bit more, I think its a significant improvement, especially if the loss of condos (and conversion to rentals) does not effect the payment to the city.
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I loved it too. Easily makes it in the top proposals for Boston in years.
 
Equilibria said:

Box

bpda.box.com bpda.box.com
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Here is a fun thought-exercise when comparing the 2 versions in this link. Let's say it was reversed, and they were glomming on the taller wing (ie blobbing it up) at the last minute rather than slimming the top. Would we be more (negatively) up in arms about it then? Would we hear more "I'm glad they are adding extra housing" or more "they took a reasonably proportioned building and made it the fattest laughingstock in the whole country?!"

For me, at the end of the day whichever one is built is just a lateral move from the other. I'm fine as long as they don't chop the main tower (again).
 
stoweker said:
it depends on the PSA, you can put anything in there, everything is a negotiation...
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Lol, I think you meant the PDA. (As linked to above)

(PSAs generally run along the lines of, "Despite what our President may have advised, mainlining disinfectants such as bleach generally does not lead to optimal health outcomes.")
 
DBM said:
Lol, I think you meant the PDA. (As linked to above)

(PSAs generally run along the lines of, "Despite what our President may have advised, mainlining disinfectants such as bleach generally does not lead to optimal health outcomes.")
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PSA -- Purchase and Sale Agreement -- standard real estate contract.
 
Huh, learn something new every day. Always like learning industry jargon.
 
Johnnyrocket891 said:
I'm factoring in the new round layoffs---by the corporations
*Those 100K White collar jobs will enter the unemployment line in my opinion.
* If restaurants & retail are under (Who is going to pay the rent to the landlords)
It really could domino. The FED can print unlimited amounts of dollars but the debt numbers are showing a a tsunami of Global Debt that they cannot stop.

The other sad fact is watching how America is falling into socialism. I expect the Fed/Govt to start to issuing $10,000 dollar checks to family's if the economy does not pick up steam by Sept.
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Mostly totally wrong

Think of the world this way:
1 part is essential to the future -- e.g. things such as MIT spawns and fosters with the Engine [incubator]
2 part that is traditional backbone of the economy -- i.e. traditional businesses making stuff which everyone needs such as food an tolitete papeire
2a part that contributes essential services [such as Health and Education]
3 part that is going to change dramatically because of the Virtual World of work from home, and the impact of AI, Cloud Services, and Robotics in particular
4 part which is a lot of bubble and fluff
5 the rest of the world which continues to function as it has for centuries

Thankfully Boston is mostly #1 a bit of #2 , a fair amount of #2a [although some of this traditional bricks & mortar is becoming virturalized] not much #3 [although Boston Area Co's such as Amazon Robotics are driving much of the #3 phenomenon some #4 but its manageable and not much #5

Hence Greater Boston is likely to do batter than most cities in terms of overall prosperity
 
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