Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Blackbird said:
What’s the tallest an affordable building can be?
Click to expand...
There is no exact answer to that question. It depends on location, land acquisition costs, local drivers for density.

You probably get the most construction bang for your bucks with 5 over 1 construction (6 stories). But there are places like Chinatown where mixed use / mixed income buildings are now proposed at 30 stories. In the high rise configurations you tend to get mixed income with market rate in the upper floors as an economic engine to help pay for the affordable in the lower floors.
 
JeffDowntown said:
There is no exact answer to that question. It depends on location, land acquisition costs, local drivers for density.
Click to expand...

There is a cultural component too, or maybe this point is lumped into “local drivers for density.” In Europe and Asia, people live in 1/4 the unit area that Americans expect. We could put more units in the same floorplate, spreading our high land acquisition cost, but our minimum unit size restrictions are a self-inflicted wound. It’s projection from the upper and middle-class on what the poor need. There are literally millions of minimum wage workers in this country (not to mention homeless as well) who would graciously accept any affordable roof over their head, but no, we can only build what Muffy from the zoning board thinks is “acceptable” for the community.

Q: “(Clutches pearls) What family could possibly live in 400 square feet?!? It’s barbaric!”

A: A few million Hong Kong, Amsterdam, and Parisian middle class families. The poor in those places manage with even less.
 
fattony said:
There is a cultural component too, or maybe this point is lumped into “local drivers for density.” In Europe and Asia, people live in 1/4 the unit area that Americans expect. We could put more units in the same floorplate, spreading our high land acquisition cost, but our minimum unit size restrictions are a self-inflicted wound. It’s projection from the upper and middle-class on what the poor need. There are literally millions of minimum wage workers in this country (not to mention homeless as well) who would graciously accept any affordable roof over their head, but no, we can only build what Muffy from the zoning board thinks is “acceptable” for the community.

Q: “(Clutches pearls) What family could possibly live in 400 square feet?!? It’s barbaric!”

A: A few million Hong Kong, Amsterdam, and Parisian middle class families. The poor in those places manage with even less.
Click to expand...
We've had this exact fight with the City over allowing SRO (single room occupancy) units in Chinatown. It harkens back to the boarding houses of old, and are largely forbidden within the city. But such living arrangements would fulfill a needed niche, and allow for much more density on the same footprint.
 
617 said:
Is this building a candidate for vertical lab space ?

www.bisnow.com

Demand Is Still High For Boston Lab Buildings, So Buildings Are Going Even Higher

Demand for lab space is driving life sciences development vertical in Boston.
www.bisnow.com www.bisnow.com
Click to expand...
I think "going higher" means breaking the typical 10 to 12 story cap (largely driven by the ventilation requirements and cost effective air handling). I don't think they are talking 60+ stories!

You also need a large amount of roof area for all the air handling equipment. The aspect ratio of a tall skyscraper doesn't work for that.
 
Just saw this advertised on Loopnet.

www.loopnet.com

115 Federal St, Boston, MA 02110 - Winthrop Center | LoopNet

115 Federal St, Boston, MA 02110. This Office space is available for lease. Winthrop Center is located in the heart of Boston's Central
www.loopnet.com www.loopnet.com

If I was the financier or an investor of this building I would be worried that the developer is advertising for anchor tenant on loopnet .
It would be one thing for small sf-footage but 812,000SF.

812,000 SF --Available
 
I was in this neighborhood yesterday from about 9am to noon and walked by the site a few times. There was not a single person on site anywhere, on a Monday morning/ afternoon when other sites were bustling. That's no bueno.
 
Agreed, this thing is doa. The glut of office space will continue to grow through sublets and expiring leases. The question is how to repurpose all of the office space in the CBD ?
 
Could this ever be built as a residential tower? It would obviously need a new design but is it possible with current foot print ? I don’t see high rise residential living demand being impacted as much long term.
 
But didn't they just spend like 2 years doing the foundation? Changing it to be much different would be a nightmare.
 
stoweker said:
....either way i don't see a new office tower getting built in boston (or anywhere really) for a lonnnnnggggg time......
Click to expand...

We are building a 600' tower for State Street right now, and it's just getting out of the ground.
 
It's quite possible the entire concept of a CBD is going to need a rethink after this pandemic is resolved.
 
stoweker said:
i mean, why bother with CBD if we've all been working from home for the past 6 months and it's going fine? i work on the investment side, i'm perfectly content at my home battlestation (as long as my kids don't interrupt me!), the only real impact this has had is that I can't actually see any of the deals i work on - i work on stuff nationally and it sucks that I can't board a flight to wherever to check in on an asset owned. if i lived in like metrowest coming out of this i'd like the optionality of an office somewhere but like, give me a desk at an office park in wellesley or waltham, i wouldn't want to have to fight it into the city.

as an aside on that, i heard that the i90 realignment for the tishman speyer deal at harvard yards is on hold, so at least that's something that won't screw up traffic in the near term.
Click to expand...
I think something that is worth looking out for in the future is if there will now be a greater demand for residential units that has a dedicated office space.

I think there is still a possibility to re-purpose Winthrop Square as a mixed-used development. The high ceiling really doesn't mean anything; all loft conversions have high ceilings. Perhaps they can turn this tower into an experimental "self-sufficient" city, with the majority of the floors converted into residential lofts and several floors dedicated into flex office space that residents can use to "work from home."
 
617 said:
Agreed, this thing is doa. The glut of office space will continue to grow through sublets and expiring leases. The question is how to repurpose all of the office space in the CBD ?
Click to expand...

How about... do nothing? The commercial real estate bust of 1990-1994 (give or take) that was intertwined with the S&L crisis was absolutely harrowing, based on the statistics I've seen--some properties saw their valuations cut by 70, 80%. I can only assume the corresponding glut in vacancies looked apocalyptic, down in the abyss of 1992.

And yet, that all got absorbed as the economy boomed in the mid- to late-1990s. Then there was the Great Recession of 2007-2009--actually not nearly as severe for CRE because its origins were in residential, not commercial. But still horrific. And yet, the huge vacancy glut all got absorbed as the economy boomed from 2012-2019.

Past performance does not guarantee future results. But it seems unwise to ignore historical patterns--unless you have a crystal ball?
 
Its funny how this thread was an absolute shitposters dream for 10 years plus and now its returning to its natural form. I'll go back to ignoring it again
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top