Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

[Java King]

I had no idea that plaza had a name. Thanks. Long live Cosi circa 1999-2000 when it was good!

I never knew the name of the alley/street either until I went to Google: The street is Milton Place, but I'm not sure the plaza has an official name.

 

[ritchiew]

I never knew the name of the alley/street either until I went to Google: The street is Milton Place, but I'm not sure the plaza has an official name.

View attachment 49411

Yeah, I don't think the plaza has an official name. The landmark commission's report really thoroughly describes everything about that building and the plaza, and they only ever call it "the plaza." So if there's no official name, I guess the "BCBS plaza"? Or "Milton Place" sounds nice.

 

[DBM]

Yeah, I don't think the plaza has an official name. The landmark commission's report really thoroughly describes everything about that building and the plaza, and they only ever call it "the plaza." So if there's no official name, I guess the "BCBS plaza"? Or "Milton Place" sounds nice.

The 133 Fed. plaza keeps some excellent company in that regard. Here's the BPDA's official map for Downtown. Here are some plazas it names: City Hall Plaza.

Here are some parks/plazas it doesn't name, MERELY IN DTX:
133 Fed. Plaza;
125 Summer Plaza;
1 Lincoln Plaza;
175 Fed. Plaza;
100 Summer Plaza;
Summer Street Plaza (between Macy's/Primark)
1 Franklin St. Plaza (used to known as "Shopper's Park," which does make it onto Google Maps)
28 State St. Plaza
Irish Famine Memorial Plaza
Old State House Plaza (i.e., Boston Massacre Site)
Old City Hall Plaza
Winthrop Square Park

that's 1 named, 12 not. What does a guy have to do around here to get a plaza labeled on a map?!?

(NOTE: For those who may claim, "oh, I'm sure many of those are labelled on the Google Maps version of Downtown".... good luck with that.)

 

[chrisbrat]

 

[shmessy]

View attachment 49674

2016:

2024:
See pic in previous post

It began on the drawing board as some great civic space/people connector - - - In the end, they chopped it down to a hotel lobby complete with bollards (errr.....I mean furniture obstacles to crowd out people and movement)

Typical Boston: Home of the Bunt.

.

 

[DZH22]

If you remove the "90's shopping mall" steel arches, then fill the place with furniture and take a picture without people around, it's pretty close to that original proposal. The crowds themselves with depend a lot on the day, time, and weather, but should improve somewhat once the park is open.

 

[chrisbrat]

When I snapped the pic that prompted Shmessy's response-post, High Street Place Food Hall (literally across the street) was hoppin. "The Connector: Where Boston Comes Together" sucks.

Will is "suck less" eventually? Maybe. Is it -- or will it ever be -- even vaguely like what was promised by Millenium? Nope.

 

[themissinglink]

Winthrop Center promised a public space open seven days a week. The city is trying to hold them to it. - The Boston Globe

The BPDA gave developer Millennium Partners a slap on the wrist this week, claiming that its three-story-high lobby, dubbed The Connector, was locked on weekends when it's supposed to be open seven days a week.

www.bostonglobe.com

The street-level passageway between Devonshire and Federal streets — which was a cornerstone of Millennium’s 2016 pitch to build the $1.3 billion tower on the site of a city-owned garage — is required to be open to the public 16 hours a day, seven days a week, according to the developer’s management and operation agreement with the city. But on Tuesday, BPDA director James Arthur Jemison issued a notice of noncompliance to Millennium, claiming that the space “was locked and inaccessible on weekends.”

 

[shmessy]

If you remove the "90's shopping mall" steel arches, then fill the place with furniture and take a picture without people around, it's pretty close to that original proposal. The crowds themselves with depend a lot on the day, time, and weather, but should improve somewhat once the park is open.

That's the point, DZ. The unrendered "fill the place with furniture" actually happened and it extinguished the civic dynamic of the "Great Hall". That existing hall now can hold far fewer humanoids with all that clutter - - and that is EXACTLY the point of management now.

They purposely threw obstacles in the way to DE-POPULATE that original render of the hall to make it far less dynamic and inviting for people to cut through. They sold it as one thing and then they proactively crumpled up the idea of it being a helpful pass-through for pedestrians and civic hall. They purposely turned it into a hotel lobby/salon. Because, God Forbid, Boston ever becomes a dynamic and lively city.

 

[shmessy]

When I snapped the pic that prompted Shmessy's response-post, High Street Place Food Hall (literally across the street) was hoppin. "The Connector: Where Boston Comes Together" sucks.

Will is "suck less" eventually? Maybe. Is it -- or will it ever be -- even vaguely like what was promised by Millenium? Nope.

Someone should throw half the obstacle furniture/gatekeeper desks out on the street and open that hall up to somewhat close to what was promised for pedestrians. That "Connector" is clogged like a 350 pound old person's aorta.

 

[Randy N. Craven-Krawtch]

Looks like a fun place to hang around on a Sunday afternoon!

 

[Johnnyrocket891]

The public space on the ground-floor pictures looks amazing. The problem here is basic retail stores are done. The old model doesn't work.
Winthrop Center is a lost vision.

The amount of overhead it costs to run a brick & mortar retail store vs running an online retail platform on the internet is the issue.
At this point there alot of risk for even Food chains to grind out for such low margins.

Until a reset in our economy that can reset the actual asset prices and create a stable currency I believe the current situation for Mass especially the surrounding areas in Boston will continue to decline and consolidate

 

[citydweller]

Pre-pandemic, this was just fanciful marketing hype. Post-pandemic, it's dead on arrival. There are major malls going out of business now. We don't congregate like years ago. I've been working remote for 3+ years, never to return to the office and the insane daily drive to the city.

 

[chrisbrat]

Pre-pandemic, this was just fanciful marketing hype. Post-pandemic, it's dead on arrival. There are major malls going out of business now. We don't congregate like years ago. I've been working remote for 3+ years, never to return to the office and the insane daily drive to the city.

I agree with most of that, but if the model is entirely dead then how come so many “markets” are doing just fine in Boston and elsewhere? As per my earlier reply in this post, at precisely the time I took the picture that served as catalyst for this round of the conversation, High Street Place Food Hall (literally across the street) was VERY busy. How do you explain that with *only* points you put forth? Millenium promised something they didn’t deliver - but something other developers (who WANT to do so) clearly can do successfully.

 

[bigpicture7]

Pre-pandemic, this was just fanciful marketing hype. Post-pandemic, it's dead on arrival. There are major malls going out of business now. We don't congregate like years ago. I've been working remote for 3+ years, never to return to the office and the insane daily drive to the city.

Completely disagree. What you are describing is a completely dead society, and most people don't want that.

 

[citydweller]

I agree with most of that, but if the model is entirely dead then how come so many “markets” are doing just fine in Boston and elsewhere? As per my earlier reply in this post, at precisely the time I took the picture that served as catalyst for this round of the conversation, High Street Place Food Hall (literally across the street) was VERY busy. How do you explain that with *only* points you put forth? Millenium promised something they didn’t deliver - but something other developers (who WANT to do so) clearly can do successfully.

It's clear that Millennium didn't deliver on what was "promised" in its proposal but let's be real here ... open 18 hours a day as a "great hall", huh? What we have is a beautiful lobby for the locals to grab a sandwich and coffee at lunch time but nothing more.

 

[shmessy]

It's clear that Millennium didn't deliver on what was "promised" in its proposal but let's be real here ... open 18 hours a day as a "civil hall", huh? What we have is a beautiful lobby for the locals to grab a sandwich and coffee at lunch time but nothing more.

Exactly, Citydweller, it LITERALLY was called "The Connector". For a reason. It's main selling point was to aid pedestrians in being a cut-through (and a nice indoor respite if a hot day or rain or snow).

They subsequently threw up mini fortresses and barriers (just look at that recent pic above).

Their action in doing so (none of that was in the renders) can only be described a "DISCONNECTOR".

 

[citydweller]

Completely disagree. What you are describing is a completely dead society, and most people don't want that.

Maybe so, but how many times do you order from amazon instead of patronizing your local businesses? That's the society we live in. Next, amazon will be using drones to deliver packages to our doorstep.

 

[Justbuildit]

Ironic username aside, as a citydweller myself, I very frequently patronize my local businesses, whether they're a small wine shop or local CVS. Amazon is of course also in play, but density and urban agglomeration has value in itself. Back to the question at hand, the corporate lobby is definitely a downgrade from the renderings, but it has a few restaurants that will serve the 30 floors of offices and another 30 floors of residences. If they actually do remain open during the required hours, it'll be another small public space that won't be lifechanging. Certainly this could be better, but I don't think an emptyish corporate lobby spells the end of American urban society.

 

[found5dollar]

That's the point, DZ. The unrendered "fill the place with furniture" actually happened and it extinguished the civic dynamic of the "Great Hall". That existing hall now can hold far fewer humanoids with all that clutter - - and that is EXACTLY the point of management now.

They purposely threw obstacles in the way to DE-POPULATE that original render of the hall to make it far less dynamic and inviting for people to cut through. They sold it as one thing and then they proactively crumpled up the idea of it being a helpful pass-through for pedestrians and civic hall. They purposely turned it into a hotel lobby/salon. Because, God Forbid, Boston ever becomes a dynamic and lively city.

Are you arguing that putting out free public seating makes a space *less* usable by the public?