Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

JeffDowntown said:
Anybody with any design sense knew the Connector would never be the Great Hall (which could never exist in that site anyway) (regardless the BS pronouncements of Millennium). 1/3 of the Connector is dedicated to vertical height change ramps.
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Perhaps you mean anyone with design sense that failed to understand the magnitude of programming subsidies that were on the table. The "height change ramps" and vaulted ceiling have little to do with the success or failure of the space as it exists today. The space could be decluttered and activated with high-caliber public events. The real failure here was in BPDA's willingness to allow the most meaningful programming subsidies, as well as food stall subsidies and other activation strategies, to be jettisoned. Hat's off to BPDA for holding Millennium down on hours of access and at least some programming subsidies. I'm here just to remind others what was promised but never delivered, and also to recall that Winthrop Square was as desolate in 2016 as it is today.
 
Fortpointer, thanks for joining the conversation on this website. I've also been following this closely but would be interested in your take on what you mean by "promised" versus generally disclosed in a filing. Are the previous claims enforceable by BPDA or under contract law? Should they be? Clearly the operating hours issue was in an enforceable contract and the BPDA letter clearly did enough to get the hall open.

To be more succinct, what could be done, in your opinion, to avoid this from happening in the future?

I'd also withhold judgment on the success of the development until known tenants move in and the park is open. But yes, currently not up to expectations.
 
FortPointer said:
Our expectations were "nothing special?" That's revisionist history in my view, even within the general theme of ArchBoston posts as I recall....
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You joined Archboston on 12/29/2022. We would have had the news about the Connector by 2018/2019. The downgrade from the Great Hall to the Connector was a deflating moment, and I'd argue THE deflating moment. But we've had 5 years to realign our expectations, and whether or not it ultimately meets those expectations has yet to be determined.
 
Justbuildit said:
Fortpointer, thanks for joining the conversation on this website. I've also been following this closely but would be interested in your take on what you mean by "promised" versus generally disclosed in a filing. Are the previous claims enforceable by BPDA or under contract law? Should they be? Clearly the operating hours issue was in an enforceable contract and the BPDA letter clearly did enough to get the hall open.

To be more succinct, what could be done, in your opinion, to avoid this from happening in the future?

I'd also withhold judgment on the success of the development until known tenants move in and the park is open. But yes, currently not up to expectations.
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Virtually nothing that the developer committed to in the winning bid, or presented in public meetings over the course of a year-and-a-half, as it regarded programming subsidies to be directed to the Great Hall (or later The Connector), was codified into enforceable legal agreements until after the project was permitted. Some of it was in one or more Cooperation Agreements. CA's aren't signed until after projects are approved by BPDA Board. As far as I'm aware, the hours of access weren't in any agreement until the M&O agreement signed by BPDA and Millennium in January 2024. It's BPDA's job to convert commitments to obligations.

To DZH22's comment, "You joined Archboston on 12/29/2022:" I used to be active around a decade ago as "Sicilian." And I followed the conversation during Winthrop Square permitting.
 
I’m confused by the “let’s wait to pass judgement” stance. Hub Hall, Time Out Market, Bow Market, and plenty other spaces opened for business when they were still in a state of “not quite done-ness” very similar to (or worse than) “The Connector” and they were vibrant from jump.
 
FortPointer said:
I used to be active around a decade ago as "Sicilian." And I followed the conversation during Winthrop Square permitting.
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Ok yeah, I remember you.

chrisbrat said:
I’m confused by the “let’s wait to pass judgement” stance. Hub Hall, Time Out Market, Bow Market, and plenty other spaces opened for business when they were still in a state of “not quite done-ness” very similar to (or worse than) “The Connector” and they were vibrant from jump.
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The first 2 locations are already much more traversed outside normal work hours. One is attached to the 2nd biggest train station in New England and the other is right near Fenway.

Whatever this is trying to be, it's not the same thing as what Bow Market is trying to be and does not (yet) have the built-in crowds of the other 2.

Also, again, the park should bring people into what is currently still an uninviting square, and which has been uninviting for probably a full decade now (plus before that it was just in front of a garage). What happens if the experience gets a tiny bit better next month, then slightly better the following month, then keeps slowly incrementally improving? Could you imagine a scenario where your opinion slowly changes with those improvements (open park, bigger crowds, open another restaurant space, actual programming, longer hours, etc)?
 
I could absolutely see myself having a different take if this space becomes more than it currently is. I don’t believe the current “meh-ness” is situational or incidental and will change as the square opens, though. I think calling out Millenium’s failure to deliver is the only way to potentially get the situation to improve.
 
As others have stated, I've been super impressed with High Street Place programming. They have DJ nights and this coming Sunday, A Queer Food Fest! It always seems to be full of people well past the 5pm working hours. I would give Millenium a bit more of a break if they had some robust programming and events like they mentioned originally. I might argue that High Street Place has become the "Boston Connector" for people of all ages and backgrounds.
 
chrisbrat said:
I’m confused by the “let’s wait to pass judgement” stance. Hub Hall, Time Out Market, Bow Market, and plenty other spaces opened for business when they were still in a state of “not quite done-ness” very similar to (or worse than) “The Connector” and they were vibrant from jump.
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I'm not defending this space at all but when Bow Market first opened it was meager and mostly a ghost town when I went
 
I was at Bow market on Sunday afternoon. It was still pretty dead for a relatively nice day at 2pm.
 
Interesting. I went on both Friday and Saturday and we couldn't get outdoor seating either day and had to wait forever to get served when we went indoors b/c it was so packed.
 
chrisbrat said:
I’m confused by the “let’s wait to pass judgement” stance. Hub Hall, Time Out Market, Bow Market, and plenty other spaces opened for business when they were still in a state of “not quite done-ness” very similar to (or worse than) “The Connector” and they were vibrant from jump.
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Exactly. Unless the management removes the fortresses of desks, lounges, walls, etc. blocking "The Connector" (i.e. "The Clogged Artery") the damage is done. All that's missing is a few Jersey barriers.
 
shmessy said:
Exactly, Citydweller, it LITERALLY was called "The Connector". For a reason. It's main selling point was to aid pedestrians in being a cut-through (and a nice indoor respite if a hot day or rain or snow).

They subsequently threw up mini fortresses and barriers (just look at that recent pic above).

Their action in doing so (none of that was in the renders) can only be described a "DISCONNECTOR".
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I think the tag line "the connector" was not meant as a cut-through but as a way for people to connect and socialize in the lobby. ref :https://theconnectorwc.com/

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HenryAlan said:
I think the disappointment is in the contrast with what was promised. The connector is a beautiful lobby with some nice public amenities. It is definitely not, a Great Hall.
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Not to beat a dead horse, but I think "promised" is a strong word here. The contrast is with the vaportechture in MP's initial submission. It had zero chance of ever happening, and any of the other proposals would have been VE'd too.

Patrick Winn said:
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I know there's been some debate but I think this connector is beautiful. So classy. Has a nice variety of shops too.
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As for a genuine architectural success, the angled window view of the Winthrop Square facade at the other end is awesome.
 
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