Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Equilibria said:
And all they did to deserve it was build the two tallest buildings in Downtown, on sites that had been absolute blights on the neighborhood, each with a substantial component of ground-level public access (the Burnham Building, Roche Bros, and the Winthrop "Connector").

I'd estimate the odds any of the other developers who proposed on this site (which included basket case Trans National and Accordia, which has only ever built a couple of prefab hotels on D street but somehow is treated like a savior) would actually have anything vertical in 2023 to be under 20%.



Yeah. This is a more attractive building than MT and looks amazing from certain angles (Dewey Square in particular).
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Yea sure tall buildings are cool. MT was a win, Winthrop is a complete fail-They reneged on the affordable housing building in chinatown and the "great hall".... and the building is clearly bad architecture. The "neighborhood" here isnt really a neighborhood at all with many people never seeing the garage wedged deep in the financial district. They used COVID as an excuse to cheap out on everything in a housing market that could barely be any hotter if it tried and theyre walking away scott free with huge bags of cash
 
Suffolk 83 said:
They used COVID as an excuse to cheap out on everything in a housing market that could barely be any hotter if it tried and theyre walking away scott free with huge bags of cash
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Come on, this is populist ranting. Please corroborate this with links to sources that objectively and rigorously demonstrate how, exactly, they're walking away "scott free with huge bags of cash." Compared to who?

Otherwise, you're just a Howie Carr-esque (or Rifleman-esque) carnival barker playing to the cheap seats.
 
Suffolk 83 said:
Yea sure tall buildings are cool. MT was a win, Winthrop is a complete fail-They reneged on the affordable housing building in chinatown and the "great hall".... and the building is clearly bad architecture. The "neighborhood" here isnt really a neighborhood at all with many people never seeing the garage wedged deep in the financial district. They used COVID as an excuse to cheap out on everything in a housing market that could barely be any hotter if it tried and theyre walking away scott free with huge bags of cash
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I get your sentiment, but I wouldn't chalk this up as a huge win yet for the developers. They are having a tough time moving units here so much that they're offering rent-to-own. The small number of people I know who live here are taking advantage of that, because it's becoming competitive with downtown rents, when a purchase would be unfathomable (~$1.7M 1 beds renting for ~$5500 vs $9,000 all-in @20% down). The long-term financing and empty office space also put them in a tough spot. The chatter from CRE private equity types is that there may be an opportunity here and at St Regis if rates stay high for another year or two and vacancies continue to hang around.

Let's see how it goes, but my understanding isn't that this has been a huge developer windfall.
 
Suffolk 83 said:
Yea sure tall buildings are cool. MT was a win, Winthrop is a complete fail-They reneged on the affordable housing building in chinatown and the "great hall".... and the building is clearly bad architecture. The "neighborhood" here isnt really a neighborhood at all with many people never seeing the garage wedged deep in the financial district. They used COVID as an excuse to cheap out on everything in a housing market that could barely be any hotter if it tried and theyre walking away scott free with huge bags of cash
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It's got nothing to do with tall buildings. I won't argue that MP bait-and-switched the City on affordable housing, but they didn't renege on the payments to buy the garage and they offered more than everyone else. That's why they got to buy the garage in the first place: they offered the highest bid for it.

The "Great Hall" was (as others have noted) a fantasy render that was physically impossible to build. Any of the other proposals would have been the same way. (To be clear: this was not my favorite bid at the time).

"Clearly bad architecture" is not clear at all. It's just your taste and your opinion. I like this building fine.
 
Equilibria said:
It's got nothing to do with tall buildings. I won't argue that MP bait-and-switched the City on affordable housing, but they didn't renege on the payments to buy the garage and they offered more than everyone else. That's why they got to buy the garage in the first place: they offered the highest bid for it.

The "Great Hall" was (as others have noted) a fantasy render that was physically impossible to build. Any of the other proposals would have been the same way. (To be clear: this was not my favorite bid at the time).

"Clearly bad architecture" is not clear at all. It's just your taste and your opinion. I like this building fine.
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To me, it's not good or bad architecture, it's just OK. As with the medical oath...........do no harm. It does no harm to the Boston urban fabric, and probably enhances it.
The tower is totally fine in my opinion, however I'm most upset about the lack of an observation floor or great hall. Millenium didn't propose an observation level that was suggested within the RFP. Instead, they sold us on a "Great Hall" that sounded quite nice and looked spectacular in the preliminary renderings. I've mentioned Toronto's BCE Place arcade on multiple threads.

I remember quite well the Prudential Center outside barren arcade before the current glass enclosed shopping arcade. The glass arcade was an amazing improvement and fun space that I always enjoyed visiting, and still do to this day over 30 years later! It has "cultural attractions" such as the Top of the Hub (...now ViewBoston) plus the interior garden with fountain, and reasonable shopping with many food options.

I doubt this "Great Connector" will have the same sense of space as the Prudential Arcade. Will the "Great Connector" make me want to visit again and again as a local person? Will it have food options and entertainment that you can't find anywhere else in the city? Will I say to out-of-town guests: "Let's start our Boston exploration at the Great Connector" as I typically suggest for the Prudential Center Complex. (PRU has parking, restaurants, observation, central location to start exploring Newbury, Boylston, etc.) I'm doubtful this Winthrop Connector will have the same draw for me, but I'm still not totally counting it out just yet.
 
Java King said:
To me, it's not good or bad architecture, it's just OK. As with the medical oath...........do no harm. It does no harm to the Boston urban fabric, and probably enhances it.
The tower is totally fine in my opinion, however I'm most upset about the lack of an observation floor or great hall. Millenium didn't propose an observation level that was suggested within the RFP. Instead, they sold us on a "Great Hall" that sounded quite nice and looked spectacular in the preliminary renderings. I've mentioned Toronto's BCE Place arcade on multiple threads.

I remember quite well the Prudential Center outside barren arcade before the current glass enclosed shopping arcade. The glass arcade was an amazing improvement and fun space that I always enjoyed visiting, and still do to this day over 30 years later! It has "cultural attractions" such as the Top of the Hub (...now ViewBoston) plus the interior garden with fountain, and reasonable shopping with many food options.

I doubt this "Great Connector" will have the same sense of space as the Prudential Arcade. Will the "Great Connector" make me want to visit again and again as a local person? Will it have food options and entertainment that you can't find anywhere else in the city? Will I say to out-of-town guests: "Let's start our Boston exploration at the Great Connector" as I typically suggest for the Prudential Center Complex. (PRU has parking, restaurants, observation, central location to start exploring Newbury, Boylston, etc.) I'm doubtful this Winthrop Connector will have the same draw for me, but I'm still not totally counting it out just yet.
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The Winthrop Place "Great Hall" was always a design fantasy that could never be built due to the one floor elevation difference between Devonshire and Federal Streets. That site imperative was completely ignored in the initial fantasy concept renderings. The connector was always going to be dominated by the accessibility ramps needed to navigate the site constraints.

Basically they lied to get the job.
 
Lots of developer boot licking on this site. You can like development, city planning and architecture and not blindly support obvious bad actors, theyre not mutally exclusive.
 
JeffDowntown said:
The Winthrop Place "Great Hall" was always a design fantasy that could never be built due to the one floor elevation difference between Devonshire and Federal Streets. That site imperative was completely ignored in the initial fantasy concept renderings. The connector was always going to be dominated by the accessibility ramps needed to navigate the site constraints.

Basically they lied to get the job.
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Every proposal was a lie.
 
Suffolk 83 said:
Lots of developer boot licking on this site. You can like development, city planning and architecture and not blindly support obvious bad actors, theyre not mutally exclusive.
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I don't think it's boot licking to point out that without MP, Filenes would still be a hole and Winthrop Square would still be a garage.
 
Suffolk 83 said:
Lots of developer boot licking on this site. You can like development, city planning and architecture and not blindly support obvious bad actors, theyre not mutally exclusive.
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Hah hah, just the sort of response we should expect from a populist when challenged to bring evidence. You want proof that my unfounded assertion is the truth? What a boot licker!
 
There must be a modified version of Godwin's law, but with bootlicker.
 
HenryAlan said:
Hah hah, just the sort of response we should expect from a populist when challenged to bring evidence. You want proof that my unfounded assertion is the truth? What a boot licker!
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Not sure what this populist nonsense is about but I chose to ignore what I thought was a ridiculous comment. All the evidence is in this thread I dont know why I have to babysit.
 
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awood91 said:

www.bisnow.com

Deloitte Signs 138K SF Lease At New Boston Office Tower

The consulting firm is the fourth office lease MP Boston has secured at the 691-foot-tall Winthrop Center development.
www.bisnow.com www.bisnow.com
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Globe version, since some of us are actually behind their paywall :) (side note: does anyone in the world pay for Bisnow?)

www.bostonglobe.com

In biggest office lease of the year, Deloitte plans move to Winthrop Center - The Boston Globe

Deloitte plans to shift its Boston operations from the old Hancock building at 200 Berkeley Street in Back Bay to the new 138,000 square feet of office space in the tower in fall 2024.
www.bostonglobe.com www.bostonglobe.com

With Deloitte and McKinsey in the same building, I assume it has been reinforced against the weight of so many world-changing ideas in one place... ;)
 
Equilibria said:
Globe version, since some of us are actually behind their paywall :) (side note: does anyone in the world pay for Bisnow?)

www.bostonglobe.com

In biggest office lease of the year, Deloitte plans move to Winthrop Center - The Boston Globe

Deloitte plans to shift its Boston operations from the old Hancock building at 200 Berkeley Street in Back Bay to the new 138,000 square feet of office space in the tower in fall 2024.
www.bostonglobe.com www.bostonglobe.com

With Deloitte and McKinsey in the same building, I assume it has been reinforced against the weight of so many world-changing ideas in one place... ;)
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Bisnow is entirely free, you just have to sign up for an account
 
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