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stick n move

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Im still having the problem where Ill click on a thread and be brought to pg1 when I should be being brought to the last read page and post. It doesnt always happen, but like 25% of the time and its crazy annoying. Anyone else? Im not doing anything different than I always have and it never happened before and doesnt on any other forum. Drivin me crazy...
 

Equilibria

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The new Gillette redevelopment thread is another casualty for me. It's the most recent thread on the front page and I can click on that, but it doesn't show up at all in the Development Projects thread list... I didn't know it existed until I happened to visit the front page right after a post.
 

BeeLine

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The new Gillette redevelopment thread is another casualty for me. It's the most recent thread on the front page and I can click on that, but it doesn't show up at all in the Development Projects thread list... I didn't know it existed until I happened to visit the front page right after a post.
I'm not having any problem it's on the Development Projects Thread, What's New, New Posts and Latest Posts.
 

BarbaricManchurian

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Why can't we migrate to a community-run forum (as was the plan all along until briv pulled the rug out from under us)?
 

SkyriseCities

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I've been looking at it with the Mods and I'm not sure what the issue is. The TOU listed here is the generic Xenforo terms. I didn't write it. Pretty much the same kind of thing you find on all sites. Read it carefully. You own the copyright so we have no right to sell it. And as I've indicated previously we've never done so with any content on UrbanToronto.

 

Beton Brut

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I've been looking at it with the Mods and I'm not sure what the issue is.
Very interesting, Edward.

@Arlington, @BeeLine @datadyne007 @George_Apley @vanshnookenraggen

Could I trouble you folks take a moment to point our host to the crux of the matter here...

The TOU listed here is the generic Xenforo terms. I didn't write it.
If this is indeed the case, would you consider replacing these terms with something you actually did write and that we, as an established community, can all comfortably agree to going forward?

Pretty much the same kind of thing you find on all sites.
That may be the case, and that's actually the core of the problem. The earnings potential of many other platforms is predicated on a monetization model that assigns value to the users' personal information, preferences, unique visits, and loads of other parameters. In short, you give up something to participate in the platform. But aB isn't Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, etc...

The site generates traffic, and that traffic is worth something to you as a marketable commodity to advertisers. I don't love ads, and I have the tools to block them if I wish. They're tolerable in exchange for a better user interface and site maintenance, but that's the end.

And further, on the topic of personal information, there needs to be clarity in the TOU that explicitly limits the sale or resale of user information (i.e. email addresses connected to users accounts).

Read it carefully. You own the copyright so we have no right to sell it. And as I've indicated previously we've never done so with any content on UrbanToronto.

I have. So have others. We take issue, and are asking, again, for redress.

And to clarify, once again, this isn't about me, or what I think, or how I use this forum -- it's about the future health of the dialog in this community. Surely this resonates with at least some of you folks. Conversely, if you think I'm being an asshole, don't be embarrassed to tell me so.
 
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George_Apley

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I intimated that regardless of one's perspective on the existing terms, it wouldn't be too much of a hassle to tinker with the ToS to satisfy some of the concerns laid out here.

That said, what specifically do you see happening with your content under these terms that is making you so distrustful of them? The Xenforo platform keeps posts, even when an account is deleted. That's part of the platform, not some nefarious, capitalist scheme by Ed, who is pretty clearly just using the default ToS. I get that people are distrustful of an outsider with a business incentive and frustrated by slow responses and progress, but I'm really not getting the sense that Ed's just waiting to pounce on a monetization scheme for our content beyond advertising. I also get that people are distrustful of Terms and Conditions in general in our modern environment. Essentially we have two perspectives with one reading the ToS charitably and as pretty bog-standard legalese, and another reading the ToS with intense skepticism and seeing the worst-case scenario.

If you're concerned, please lay out the worst-case scenario for your content. Are you worried it could be used for in-house advertising under these terms? It's pretty clear that it could not be sold or used for a profit without your consent, as you hold the copyright.
 

Beton Brut

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Hi @George_Apley - pardon my tardy reply, I've had a busy couple of days...
I intimated that regardless of one's perspective on the existing terms, it wouldn't be too much of a hassle to tinker with the ToS to satisfy some of the concerns laid out here.
Right on.
That said, what specifically do you see happening with your content under these terms that is making you so distrustful of them?
So, a couple of things...

First, this has never been about me or my content. My concerns are broad and inclusive. This is about everyone's content in an established online community dating back 20+ years.

To further clarify, I stand behind everything in this post, and all of my other posts on the subject "Forum Issues..." I've tried my best to remain well-reasoned and civil. If you (or anyone) feels differently, by all means call me out.
If you're concerned, please lay out the worst-case scenario for your content.
Again, have I been unclear, ambiguous, or inconsistent? Has anyone who's addressed similar concerns? I don't wish to waste anyone's time rehashing what's already been said. I'm much more interested in what others (in particular folks with legal backgrounds) may have to say on this.
Are you worried it could be used for in-house advertising under these terms?
I'm not sure I understand the term "in-house advertising" -- for purposes of promoting aB to another of Edward's holdings (i.e. UrbanToronto)? Please explain.

I did find @Arlington post yesterday of interest. I'm surprised no one's commented on it.
 

George_Apley

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Hi @George_Apley - pardon my tardy reply, I've had a busy couple of days...

First, this has never been about me or my content. My concerns are broad and inclusive. This is about everyone's content in an established online community dating back 20+ years.

To further clarify, I stand behind everything in this post, and all of my other posts on the subject "Forum Issues..." I've tried my best to remain well-reasoned and civil. If you (or anyone) feels differently, by all means call me out.

Again, have I been unclear, ambiguous, or inconsistent? Has anyone who's addressed similar concerns? I don't wish to waste anyone's time rehashing what's already been said. I'm much more interested in what others (in particular folks with legal backgrounds) may have to say on this.
You have absolutely been well-reasoned and civil.

What's been clear to me is that many people have concerns about what Edward owns and who owns the content posted. I can't speak to the first concern. I'm not an expert in the second, but "you retain the copyright" seems pretty unambiguous. To me, that sort of renders the first concern (about what Edward owns) moot.

At the risk of rehashing things that have already been discussed, I don't think you're totally clear in the post you linked. The part of that post that has to do with user content seems to be this part:

But if site policies on use of personal information and content tilt in favor of Edward (and his investors[?]), I can’t imagine that anyone from the “professional” world of architecture, urbanism, academia, or the creative realm will be comfortable participating.

I suppose this refers to the licensing provision, but I'm not certain what it is you're concerned could happen. Apologies if I'm being obtuse and have missed the obvious. Looking back to the earlier skeptical responses in that thread (including the one you linked), the concerns were mostly esoteric, but at a certain point they became pointedly about the Terms of Service. So my post above was very much keeping with the Terms of Service concerns, rather than the more philosophical, communitarian concerns. And to be honest, I don't think you all will be satisfied in that given Edward's management style.

So, in keeping with the ToS, let's actually dig in to the provision that Justin7 quoted some time back:
You are granting us with a non-exclusive, permanent, irrevocable, unlimited license to use, publish, or re-publish your Content in connection with the Service. You retain copyright over the Content.​
These terms may be changed at any time without notice.​

I may be wrong, but I believe the licensing provision allows things like quoting posts, splitting posts into new threads, etc. As I see it, the copyright clause negates any possible use of user-generated content that would be objectionable. But I'm open to corrections from someone who knows better. This is what I'm asking about when I keep asking "what are your concerns?"

As far as "these terms may be changed at any time without notice", I agree that this should be concerning to any web user. Particularly the "without notice" provision.

I'm not sure I understand the term "in-house advertising" -- for purposes of promoting aB to another of Edward's holdings (i.e. UrbanToronto)? Please explain.
For example, are you concerned that Edward could use photographs hosted on the site on banners, etc.? As I read the ToS, I don't think he could do that without express permission from the copyright holder.

I did find @Arlington post yesterday of interest. I'm surprised no one's commented on it.
I didn't notice it, since he posted it in another thread. To be honest, I wouldn't feel very comfortable wordsmithing a ToS because I'm not a lawyer, and I don't fully understand the legal implications behind what Arlington wrote.
 
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Justin7

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For example, are you concerned that Edward could use photographs hosted on the site on banners, etc.? As I read the ToS, I don't think he could do that without express permission from the copyright holder.
Sidestepping everything else for a moment, I'm not sure how you are squaring "permanent, irrevocable, unlimited" with "would require further consent."
 

George_Apley

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Sidestepping everything else for a moment, I'm not sure how you are squaring "permanent, irrevocable, unlimited" with "would require further consent."
Because you hold the copyright? I think I squared that pretty clearly. Explain to me why that’s stupid. I’m open to being wrong.
 

HenryAlan

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The only real problem I have with the ToS is this:

These terms may be changed at any time without notice.
It effectively renders everything else as meaningless. I don't know that I completely understand @Beton Brut's (or other members') precise concerns, but I do know that any language addressing them is moot, so long as Edward can change the terms at any time without notice. That one line has to go, period.
 

Beton Brut

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I don't know that I completely understand @Beton Brut's (or other members') precise concerns, but I do know that any language addressing them is moot, so long as Edward can change the terms at any time without notice. That one line has to go, period.
Word up, @HenryAlan

Maybe the lens I look at this through isn't the best for others' eyes; and to be clear, I'm not a lawyer, but I look at contracts and agreements most days in the workplace, and I've signed a few in my creative life removed from my interest in architecture, urbanism, and historic preservation.

For me, modern legal thought walks back in a relatively straight line to Greco-Roman philosophy and ethics. (If this overly Eurocentric worldview makes anyone uncomfortable, I apologize.) All I've ever been looking for in this matter is a just and fair outcome for everyone who shares their thoughts, ideas, and work here. It's always been my hope that we could collaboratively develop a TOU (and system of site governance) that would be unquestionably inviting and nonrestrictive to the current community of posters and to new voices -- writers, academics, public officials, photographers, filmmakers.

I think all of us can agree that the established aB community mirrors broader, real-world society. So much of contemporary life makes us suspicious, mistrustful, cautious, and change-adverse. And in many cases, there are rewards to feeling and behaving this way. Technology and the market-forces it influences are chipping away at our privacy, and our ability to control what's "ours." This wasn't an issue on aB until it became an issue here...

So let's fix it. Language like permanent, irrevocable, unlimited, and changed at any time without notice aren't your friends, even if you're not involved in any sort of creative endevor.
 

BostonUrbEx

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New forum looks pretty good. However, when a post has new replies, how do I go to the first new reply since last viewing the thread? The old forum has this option. But I can't seem to find anything which will bring me to the start of new replies and I have to hunt down where I left off and it is very annoying.
 

George_Apley

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New forum looks pretty good. However, when a post has new replies, how do I go to the first new reply since last viewing the thread? The old forum has this option. But I can't seem to find anything which will bring me to the start of new replies and I have to hunt down where I left off and it is very annoying.
If you just click the thread title it should snap you directly to the last post since you last opened the thread.
 

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