Logan Airport Capital Projects

The roadways in and out of DFW have tollbooths, so anyone picking up/dropping off pays a toll.
 
I hope that they're serious this time & not stringing us along. We really need one of those!! :cool:
 
dshoost88 said:
I wonder if that's part of the future Intermodal Transportation center.
Click to expand...

Not sure what it is, but I'm pretty sure it isn't that. Massport is still in the initial evaluation of the APM and they weren't even sure the ITC would happen at all.

EDIT: Mass88, thanks for scrolling down for those slides :).

I hate to do this again, but WTF is wrong with MassDOT when it comes to gate numbering. Pier A is going to be renovated and turned over to new airlines. They will be replacing the gate signage, according to the render on slide 136. If so, pray tell, why are they adding gates 31A and 35A? Why not just renumber them all and insert the two new numbers?

I notice that there are now two competing versions of the numbering in the B/C connector, the newer one makes a little more sense than the older. C21 is taken on one of the piers, and C22 is presumably kept in store for if another gate gets tacked on over there, so the lowest number counting up toward C26 (which isn't in the project) is C23, and they backfilled from B with B39 and B40. Not perfect, but better.

That said, all of the renders fit nicely with Massport's pedestrian-but-attractive aesthetic.
 
Last edited:
Massport has posted an RFQ for professional services on Terminal A improvements (at the eye-popping typo of $200 million (they mean $2 million). The improvements being planned include:

- Design of interior improvements at both the main and satellite terminals (presumably to serve Delta's focus city ambitions)

- Reconfiguration and improvements at the security checkpoint (likely to serve the next-gen security lanes that are going in terminals B and C now)

- New elevators

- Preliminary study of airside connections to both Terminal B and Terminal E (Massport has downplayed A/B connector as a priority before so it's interesting to see it here, though A/E discussion presages draw-up in SkyTeam international flights).
 
Less capital topic but the board approved the TNC proposal but modified it to weaken it. Fees are going to stay at $3.25, instead of the proposed $5, but will apply to both pickups and dropoffs, previously only applied to pickups. TNCs pickup/dropoff will move to central garage in October but will continue curbside drop offs pre-10am when congestion isn't as bad. The initial reaction on Twitter is bad, TNC users are pissed, and Uber and Lyft have been sending them emails encouraging them to get mad about it and contact state reps. Its a shame people never see the bigger picture...
 
Last edited:
HelloBostonHi said:
Less capital topic but the board approved the TNC proposal but modified it to weaken it. Fees are going to stay at $3.25 but will apply to both pickups and dropoffs, previously only applied to pickups. TNCs pickup/dropoff will move to central garage in October but will continue curbside drop offs pre-10am when congestion isn't as bad. The initial reaction on Twitter is bad, TNC users are pissed, and Uber and Lyft have been sending them emails encouraging them to get mad about it and contact state reps. Its a shame people never see the bigger picture...
Click to expand...

Uber and Lyft will have terminal access from 4am to 10am, but not outside of that. I don't see how that makes any sense.

Uber/Lyft will not be restricted during morning rush hour (roughly 7am to 10am), but will be restricted when late/delayed flights are landing at Logan after the T shuts down (1am to 3am). If this policy is supposed to encourage transit ridership, then why does it still apply after the T shuts down?

If your flight lands at Logan after 1am, what are you supposed to do to get where you're going? The T is shut down, your friends are asleep, and Massport doesn't want to you use Uber and Lyft. The only remaining answer is to take a cab. I think that alone is a pretty informative example of who this policy is meant to benefit.

As for congestion, does anybody believe that congestion is worse between 1am and 4am than it is between 7am and 10am? Why are restrictions relaxed in the latter but not in the former.
 
JumboBuc said:
If your flight lands at Logan after 1am, what are you supposed to do to get where you're going?
Click to expand...

You're supposed to walk the 5 minutes to central garage to get your rideshare. Not that difficult to do. Seriously. Also the last Silver Line trip is 2:30am so catch the Silver Line. Thats what Massport wants, stop pushing your taxi conspiracies.

JumboBuc said:
As for congestion, does anybody believe that congestion is worse between 1am and 4am than it is between 7am and 10am? Why are restrictions relaxed in the latter but not in the former.
Click to expand...

Pickups cause the most congestion. Period. Nighttime is a big pickup time, thereby its always a big congestion time. Dropoffs take a fraction of the time that pickups do. 4am to 10am is a big dropoff time.
 
What about a fee that is only assessed if a TNC enters or exits the airport without a passenger. Maybe they have to do some circulating on airport roads to get their next fare, but it at least solves the problem for Eastie traffic. Me getting a ride from my neighbor Jim (or a hypothetical taxi, if they still exist) instead of an Uber doesn't help traffic at all.

The game of sending TNCs to a specific lot before they can accept a hail and then they have to drive to the pickup location is a big part of the current problem. Keep the cars moving:

Step 1) Drop off passenger at terminal X departure.

Step 2) Start driving and immediately pair with a pickup at terminal Y arrival. It takes just one lap of the airport ring to get there.
 
HelloBostonHi said:
You're supposed to walk the 5 minutes to central garage to get your rideshare. Not that difficult to do. Seriously.

[...]

Thats what Massport wants, stop pushing your taxi conspiracies.
Click to expand...

If walking to the central garage is so easy, why is it only required for Uber/Lyft but not for private vehicles/taxis?

HelloBostonHi said:
Also the last Silver Line trip is 2:30am so catch the Silver Line.
Click to expand...

The last "typical" inbound SL from the airport is around 12:35. A handfull of busses run at times later than that but they don't connect to the rest of the system, which isn't running past 1ish. An SL bus that doesn't connect to the rest of the system (which is shut down) is of little very little help. I landed at Logan a bit past 1am just a few weeks ago and tried to take the SL, but there weren't any busses running to South Station.

HelloBostonHi said:
Pickups cause the most congestion. Period. Nighttime is a big pickup time, thereby its always a big congestion time. Dropoffs take a fraction of the time that pickups do. 4am to 10am is a big dropoff time.
Click to expand...

I simply do not believe that Uber/Lyft pickup congestion between, say, 1am and 4am is a problem that needs to be addressed. Go the terminal curbside at 2am and look for congestion. It doesn't exist.

And if you're referring to the roads outside of the airport and not the airport itself, pickups and dropoffs look the same.
 
JumboBuc said:
If walking to the central garage is so easy, why is it only required for Uber/Lyft but not for private vehicles/taxis?


And if you're referring to the roads outside of the airport and not the airport itself, pickups and dropoffs look the same.
Click to expand...

I personally believe there should be a fee for all pickup/dropoff at logan and more/all cars should be moved to central to free up the terminals for buses. Yep 100% I would support that. But its one step at a time, Americans are very reluctant to put fees on using personal vehicles beyond parking. My local airport in the UK charged 1.50GBP to all private vehicles who entered (personal, taxi, Uber, limos) and personal vehicles are restricted to only the parking area. Only buses/emergency vehicles are allowed on terminal roads and only they are exempt from fees.

And my point about pickups taking long is because two parties have to locate each other, often times people call before they've even got their bags or made it to the curb adding more time to the process, then once they do locate each other they have to load bags etc. Drop-offs skip all the locating each other bit, they pull to a curb and let people out. It seems silly but in a crowded area like logan I've seen people minutes locating their ride, and private pickups are worse. My company did a study for massport on how long people sit at the curb waiting for pickups or locating their passengers, its truly ridiculous.
 
HelloBostonHi said:
I personally believe there should be a fee for all pickup/dropoff at logan and more/all cars should be moved to central to free up the terminals for buses. Yep 100% I would support that.
Click to expand...

What buses? Massport has already eliminated the individual rental car shuttles and will ultimately spend hundreds of millions to replace their own with a train. Other than that, you have Logan Express and other intercity buses, but there aren't enough of those to use all the curb space, and hotel shuttles, which are arguably less efficient than private cars since they are far less fuel efficient any may not carry more than a couple of people per trip...

At some point, the curb is empty.
 
JumboBuc said:
If walking to the central garage is so easy, why is it only required for Uber/Lyft but not for private vehicles/taxis?



The last "typical" inbound SL from the airport is around 12:35. A handfull of busses run at times later than that but they don't connect to the rest of the system, which isn't running past 1ish. An SL bus that doesn't connect to the rest of the system (which is shut down) is of little very little help. I landed at Logan a bit past 1am just a few weeks ago and tried to take the SL, but there weren't any busses running to South Station.



I simply do not believe that Uber/Lyft pickup congestion between, say, 1am and 4am is a problem that needs to be addressed. Go the terminal curbside at 2am and look for congestion. It doesn't exist.

And if you're referring to the roads outside of the airport and not the airport itself, pickups and dropoffs look the same.
Click to expand...

I’ve been traveling a lot for the past year, and while there definitely is more traffic at Logan than there used to be, I have not once seen any serious problem approaching the level of congestion we have all over the rest of the city. I think having people schlep to the central garage is absolutely ridiculous, and the fact that they exempt taxis adds insult to injury. I’m not a conspiracy theorist, But like jumbo said, obviously this is an imposition, and if it wasn’t, they would force taxis to do the same. I am in favor of doing what other airports do, having a people moving train to get you to the central garage. Until they build that, this is a horrible idea, adds a completely unnecessary burden, and it should be scuttled — if for any reason, because it also isn’t going to do anything to reduce the congestion it aims to.
 
Last edited:
Equilibria said:
What buses? Massport has already eliminated the individual rental car shuttles and will ultimately spend hundreds of millions to replace their own with a train. Other than that, you have Logan Express and other intercity buses, but there aren't enough of those to use all the curb space, and hotel shuttles, which are arguably less efficient than private cars since they are far less fuel efficient any may not carry more than a couple of people per trip...

At some point, the curb is empty.
Click to expand...

Wildly overstated. And a long time off.

The proposed people mover will not eliminate all the Massport busses, because it won't connect to all the remote parking options. Silver line still will need every curb. Regional busses take up a ton of space, and there are a lot of them (which is a good thing, but needs to be accomodated). Force visitors to rent cars rather than use hotel shuttles? Really?

Hardly "empty" curbs.
 
Equilibria said:
Not sure what it is, but I'm pretty sure it isn't that. Massport is still in the initial evaluation of the APM and they weren't even sure the ITC would happen at all.
Click to expand...

I've been told by some of my limo-driving friends that this is the new gas station to replace the existing station, which will be demolished for the terminal E expansion project.
 
JeffDowntown said:
Wildly overstated. And a long time off.

The proposed people mover will not eliminate all the Massport busses, because it won't connect to all the remote parking options. Silver line still will need every curb. Regional busses take up a ton of space, and there are a lot of them (which is a good thing, but needs to be accomodated). Force visitors to rent cars rather than use hotel shuttles? Really?

Hardly "empty" curbs.
Click to expand...

I would wager that if Logan had a people-moving train that took passengers right to the Blue Line, there would be a significant increase in use of the BL and probably a small drop in SL ridership to the airport (and a major drop if the RL-BL connector gets done). I just don't see the current plan as achieving its goals of reducing congestion; it's essentially assuming that purposefully inconveniencing people who want to use ride apps will result in them using other transportation options. Most people will just walk to central parking and still take Uber/Lyft, but just be more annoyed as they do it.
 
fattony said:
The game of sending TNCs to a specific lot before they can accept a hail and then they have to drive to the pickup location is a big part of the current problem. Keep the cars moving:

Step 1) Drop off passenger at terminal X departure.

Step 2) Start driving and immediately pair with a pickup at terminal Y arrival. It takes just one lap of the airport ring to get there.
Click to expand...

The software capability for TNC drivers has improved though. Now TNC's (at least Uber) are able to sync up your next trip toward the end of a ride ride, thus making the same pick-up drop-off location such a no-brainer.

Scenario: you're taking an Uber to Logan for your JetBlue flight from Terminal C, and your ETA at Logan is 6:05p. Meanwhile, my friends and I return from a Delta flight to Terminal A at 5:50p. By the time we're en route walking to the TNC area in Central Garage, I fire up the Uber app at 6:03p and request a ride. Your Uber driver receives an alert of my ride request moments before you get the Central Garage, and then the pick-up/drop-off is booked.

It's a lot more efficient, both for the TNC drivers' time and for that of passengers getting dropped off. Curb side space is at a premium now that Logan's exceeded 40,000,000 passengers handled annually, and it's due to worsen in coming months with the approved capital improvements. This is a great mitigation strategy.
 
dshoost88 said:
Curb side space is at a premium now that Logan's exceeded 40,000,000 passengers handled annually, and it's due to worsen in coming months with the approved capital improvements. This is a great mitigation strategy.
Click to expand...

One of the aspects of this whole situation that grinds my gears is that Massport has been working really hard in the last decade or so to grow Logan's terminal capacity, route map, and passenger count, and they've been proudly touting their (impressive) success. Then they turn around with this shocked and concerned look on their collective faces when they notice that more passengers are also travelling to and from Logan by ground. Well, what did they expect?

It's almost as if they view increased arrivals and departures by air as a success but increased arrivals and departures by ground as a failure.

Now Massport is at the exact same time trying to expand air travel to and from Logan while also trying to restrict ground travel to and from Logan. But it's all for the same passengers! It just doesn't make sense to me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top