[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

TheRifleman said:
The best bet for the Aquarium is to jump on board with the developer and ask him to redevelop the entire area including the Aquarium.

The Aquarium executives should ask to be incorporated into the development also help the developer add more space to make it lucrative deal.
The Aquarium is so outdated that it needs to be REDEVELOPED into something in the 21st century.

So why not CLOSE the entire area and let CHIOFARO build on Harbor Garage along with connectivity to the entire Aquarium area.
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Not a bad idea, in essence. Chiofaro will need to reach out to the aquarium, and make an offer to do something that likely would benefit the whole area. It's ridiculous, but i wonder if the aquarium just wants this already and that's the motive behind their very public position. Doesn't otherwise make much sense, given that the big dig went on fine and that construction shouldn't be withheld because of animals.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

The Aquarium itself, no matter how much renovating & PR they do, remains sub-par for today's modern standards. I continue to hear people express disappointment with the NEAQ upon visiting, even post-renovation. The penguins are neat, but overall the Aquarium just doesn't deliver the experiences other aquariums around the country & world do.

This is a prime opportunity to redo the entire Aquarium site.
 
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

The fish raised their fins on the motion in opposition to shadows.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I'm just surprised that the aquarium isnt taking advantage of this opportunity to ask this project's developers to fork at least 50% towards the cost of a new aquarium (as previous stated). And to say that a small tower wont affect the animal vs a taller tower is just BS.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

scorpio02150 said:
I'm just surprised that the aquarium isnt taking advantage of this opportunity to ask this project's developers to fork at least 50% towards the cost of a new aquarium (as previous stated).
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Granted it is the largest aquarium in the Western Hemisphere, and Boston doesn't need or have the space for a similar size one, the Georgia Aquarium in Atlanta cost approximately $300 million to build when it was built 10 years ago. Even assuming Boston could build one for half the cost, I highly doubt Chiofaro is going to make a $75-$100 million donation to the aquarium.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Chiofaro makes modest donations to the Greenway, about $5,000 a year. If his development plan is approved, he said, that would probably result in a much larger payment to the Conservancy to fund its operations and offset the impacts of the new buildings.
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https://www.bostonglobe.com/busines...development/ICjMgQWupK3DchsDmdjygP/story.html

Doubtful he would give Aguarium $10 million, let alone $100 million. He did try and secure Meninor's okay for the original 'arch' by saying he'd give $50 million to the city. Course, he never put $50 million on the table for Menino to see that this wasn't an idle promise.

The aquariums concerns probably center more on the excavation for a new underground garage, and the pilings that need to be driven to support 70 feet of underground garage and whatever tower goes on top. If the garage remains and serves as a podium for the tower(s), IMO, that would address a major concern of the aquarium.

Way back when, the Aquarium had an unsuccessful campaign to move from where it is now to where the new Spaulding Rehabilitation Hospital now is.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Why would anybody give anything to the Greenway Conservancy? Does the developer own IP? Those buildings must generate taxes for the city to help pay for basic cleanup infront of his building? Why would he give more free money to another organization to do the same thing that he pays his taxes for?

Sounds like BID situation in the Downtown. Double Taxation for the same service
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

TheRifleman said:
Why would anybody give anything to the Greenway Conservancy? Does the developer own IP? Those buildings must generate taxes for the city to help pay for basic cleanup infront of his building? Why would he give more free money to another organization to do the same thing that he pays his taxes for?

Sounds like BID situation in the Downtown.
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Yes, Chiofaro owns International Place.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

TheRifleman said:
Why would anybody give anything to the Greenway Conservancy? Does the developer own IP? Those buildings must generate taxes for the city to help pay for basic cleanup infront of his building? Why would he give more free money to another organization to do the same thing that he pays his taxes for?

Sounds like BID situation in the Downtown. Double Taxation for the same service
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As if Chiofaro and IP didn't benefit from the Big Dig tearing down the ramp that ran almost smack dab across the face of his complex.

1184870615_2279.jpg
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

^^^^
I bet those buildings generate a lot of taxes for the city of Boston.

Just my opinion.

Did this developer get any tax deals or breaks like Fallon and rest of these other developer hacks to build IP?
The city and state basically built the foundation of the Liberty Mutual Building with their 46.5 Million dollar tax donation: They called it Job Creation for an insurance company. Maybe the ExChairman billionaire Ted Kelley can donate some of his money to the Greenway Conservancy also to help with tough times..
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

stellarfun said:
As if Chiofaro and IP didn't benefit from the Big Dig tearing down the ramp that ran almost smack dab across the face of his complex.

1184870615_2279.jpg
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Chiofaro actually built that ramp as part of the International Place project. The existing ramp interfered with Phase 2 of the IP project and had to be replaced to make way for the development.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Way back when, the Aquarium had an unsuccessful campaign to move from where it is now to where the new Spaulding Rehabilitation Hospital now is.
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I was thinking the same thing. Menino (Maybe Flynn?) blocked/dissuaded the move to that location because they didn't want to lose this downtown attraction. If I recall, the move would have made the aquarium much larger. But the aquarium is reinvested in this location and it is hard to imagine another better location... As this area is a focus of tourism and entertainment.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Maybe some sort of 3 way swap? Give the garage to the aquarium ( providing future expansion room and revenue) in return Boston orchestrates land and development rights someplace else where they want a tower.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

The meeting is tonight from 6pm-8pm at Atlantic Wharf (290 Congress) - I am definitely going to get out of work in time, so I'm excited to go.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

How did the meeting go?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I was actually blown away with the level of support! Most surprising: more Harbor Towers residents spoke in favor of the development than against it. That was really mind-boggling because the media has portrayed it as if Harbor Towers is against this development - that's absolutely not true.

- I would say 75%-80% of the people who spoke were in favor of it.

- Of the 25% who spoke out against it 100% of them were HT residents with the exact same message "I'm retired, I'm comfortable, I don't want change, do not disturb"

- That means 0% of unbiased people spoke out against this project. Not one unbiased person said anything at all bad about this project.

This was very, very different than almost every other MHP or BRA meeting I've ever been to because other than a small group of very specific people, there were no complaints or nay-sayers at all. This was not at all what I expected. I think the 6pm meeting time really helped bring out voices that are usually not available during business hours.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Mike02125 said:
This was very, very different than almost every other MHP or BRA meeting I've ever been to because other than a small group of very specific people, there were no complaints or nay-sayers at all. This was not at all what I expected. I think the 6pm meeting time really helped bring out voices that are usually not available during business hours.
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It would seem that may have been the exact reason the Menino's and Shen's of our world held these things during normal work hours.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

tangent said:
I was thinking the same thing. Menino (Maybe Flynn?) blocked/dissuaded the move to that location because they didn't want to lose this downtown attraction. If I recall, the move would have made the aquarium much larger. But the aquarium is reinvested in this location and it is hard to imagine another better location... As this area is a focus of tourism and entertainment.
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Tangent -- nobody needed to block the move -- the Aquarium couldn't hack it

On the Cultural Pecking Order [not counting the U's whose reach is global] the Aquarium is fairly low [note the scale is highly non-linear]:
  • 100 MFA
  • 95 BSO
  • 75 Mass General
  • 60 Dana Farber
  • 50 Children's Hospital
  • 40 MOS
  • 22 Children's Museum
  • 14 Arboretum
  • 12 Friends of the Common/Garden
  • ......big gap .....
  • 4 ICA
  • 2.8 ISG
  • 0.8 Boston Ballet
  • 0.1 Aquarium
  • 0.001 Zoo
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

The temptation to derail with arguments to that math is extreme...but are those numbers just made up or is there some metric to your argument that we might look at in a separate thread?
 
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