Four Seasons Tower @ CSC | 1 Dalton Street | Back Bay

I feel like anybody who complains about the ground level here must have never been to this site in person. It's a dead zone, and the general area is mainly a taxi stand, vehicle access into the hotels, and.... nothing. It's right next to the Pru mall, and a block away from Boylston Street. (past a garage and more vehicle access points) The area is a pass-through and the park that used to be there was barely used, nor had a reason to be.

Every single new development in town does not need a trendy ground floor coffee shop to be considered a successful development. There's no good reason to have anything of that sort here.
 
I gotta agree with DZH, even if you put in decent ground floor retail I dont think it would thrive in this spot. Dalton street is dead, most people probably dont even think anything there exists. Its a perfect spot for this type of tower (shoulda been higher- there I said it)
 
30 Dalton will have retail. There's an underused retail space facing Belvidere on the stub-end of the colonnade building (currently used for a construction office). The Sheraton has taken some halting steps towards facing some retail onto Belvidere (currently they have a spa/salon which does that - access also from the lobby) and I expect that they'll do more of that once these developments wrap up.
 
DZH22 said:
I feel like anybody who complains about the ground level here must have never been to this site in person. It's a dead zone, and the general area is mainly a taxi stand, vehicle access into the hotels, and.... nothing. It's right next to the Pru mall, and a block away from Boylston Street. (past a garage and more vehicle access points) The area is a pass-through and the park that used to be there was barely used, nor had a reason to be.

Every single new development in town does not need a trendy ground floor coffee shop to be considered a successful development. There's no good reason to have anything of that sort here.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Even if there was retail, I can guarantee it probably won't generate enough revenue to keep it open. I rather have a lobby and garage than an empty storefront.
 
I can tolerate the upper portion of the tower. However, commercial space or no commercial space, the base of the building is homely. To think this represents the epitome of luxury residential construction today is dispiriting.
 
I kind of see it as a decent, amazingly tall building that looks incredible at night put on 25 story turd parcel.

DZH22 said:
I feel like anybody who complains about the ground level here must have never been to this site in person. It's a dead zone....

Every single new development in town does not need a trendy ground floor coffee shop to be considered a successful development. There's no good reason to have anything of that sort here.
Click to expand...

Just reading your post. Nicely done
 
I think the people shelling out the kind of money this place will command would like the discretion of a quiet entrance on a quiet street.

The Mandarin Oriental and Time Warner Residence (where Tom Brady has / had a place) towers at the Time Warner Center in NYC are fairly discreet on West 58th and West 60th Street. The only telltale signs are the Rolls Royces and black Suburbans piled up around the door.
 
Retail will thrive if it is visible from Huntingdon / the Pru complex exits nearby. The side baking up towards Mass ave and Boylston are dead, though. Long blocks of unbroken walls throughout this mini neighborhood
 
Using the downtown Four Seasons Hotel as an example ("Amenities include a refined gourmet restaurant and a classy cocktail bar serving light snacks. There's also a spa with an indoor pool, sauna and hot tub, plus a gym and a 24-hour business center."), would a spa be considered retail?
 
Aren't there deed restrictions on alcohol sales on the ground floor as part of the church selling the property for development?
 
DZH22 said:
I feel like anybody who complains about the ground level here must have never been to this site in person. It's a dead zone, and the general area is mainly a taxi stand, vehicle access into the hotels, and.... nothing. It's right next to the Pru mall, and a block away from Boylston Street. (past a garage and more vehicle access points) The area is a pass-through and the park that used to be there was barely used, nor had a reason to be.

Every single new development in town does not need a trendy ground floor coffee shop to be considered a successful development. There's no good reason to have anything of that sort here.
Click to expand...

I get over to that end of the mall only a couple of times a month on a book store run, so maybe I don't spend as much time there as some.

OK, you noticed that the neighborhood is pretty lifeless, probably saw that the neighborhood has the worst modern building in the city aka the Hilton, and that it is a traffic sewer.

No argument with any of that. Plain as the nose onTed Cruz' face. Where you lose me is that you argue like you are willing to "settle" when you ought to be asking why the expensive new development couldn't look better down where the city dwellers are. Contextual with the Hilton isn't good enough. Nor would your "trendy coffee shop" be an example of good urbanism outside of SoDaSoPa or Shelbyville.

I know why a developer would want to "settle". Why would anyone else?

There is no reason to be kiss ass about the street level of this building just because it looks good from 8 miles away.
 
This will look a thousand times better at ground level than the Hilton though. I don't understand the objections there is a space for a cafe separate from the lobby if I remember correctly and the base is not grey precast or tan precast it is going to be real stone. I think this will look nice and engage the street as well as any building with this small a footprint that includes a garage access ramp can.
 
Turd parcel turned into sort of weird but very tall building.

No street level anything needed here.
 
^^^Because the closer you get to a more traditional shaped tower, the more the footprint is reduced. Thus, the height would need to be reduced – leaving much less floor space. Here, they've achieved an economic windfall and a tall skyscraper tucked inside a quiet corner of the Back Bay where the street level isn't even visible from 2 sides, and barely visible from the third. It ain't asking for stores, or restaurants. Quite the contrary; It renders a low-key 'club' entrance for it's wealthy residents and hotel guests. The only thing they need in the lower-level is an appropriate dining experience like Nobu or Taverna Tony.

^^^
DZH22 said:
I feel like anybody who complains about the ground level here must have never been to this site in person. It's a dead zone, and the general area is mainly a taxi stand, vehicle access into the hotels, and.... nothing....

Every single new development in town does not need a trendy ground floor coffee shop to be considered a successful development. There's no good reason to have anything of that sort here.
Click to expand...
 
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I still don't get how that makes the site itself bad to the contrary for a building of this type it actually seems like an advantage.

Also I have been to that area and stayed in the Hilton there before and I fully agree with DZH22 on it being a dead zone but I don't see how that makes the parcel bad.
 
A coffee shop is perfect here. Why? Look at the PDF. The entrance is in the back, away from the main flow of activity/traffic on Dalton St. For retail to thrive here, it has to be focused towards the clientele coming/going in this building. I don't see a Dunkin's going here. The clientele is more of a Starbucks crowd. (or an independent setup)...or even perhaps a small high-end boutique store. (jewelry, gift shop, etc.) Is the Four Seasons on par with the Ritz-Carlton crowd? (the 1%-ers).......Maybe the "low income" (2%-ers) will be sent to the old Four Seasons. :)
 
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