Seaport Transportation

[whighlander]

Here's a novel solution

Don't bother digging a big hole for transit vehicles -- dig a much smaller hole for a moving walkway such as ThyssenKrupp Elevator Iwalk

Currently each segment is limited to 100m although that is changing with new innovative linear induction drives [no chains and sprockets] -- see accel in development

from their 2015 pdf
[urrl]http://thyssenkruppelevator.com/downloads/iWalk_advantages.pdf[/url]
https://www.thyssenkruppelevator.com/downloads/EscalatorCatalog.pdf
-- here is the capacity

Nominal Pallet Width 64" width [1600 mm]
Truss Width 7'-01/4" [2140 mm]
Pit Width 7'-25/8" [2200 mm]
Persons per Hour @ 100 fpm (0.5 m/s) 15,750
Persons per Hour@ 125 fpm (0.65 m/s) 20,475

Sao Paolo, Brazil

Note if the slope is minimal there is no need for a pit the walk just sits on top of an existing floor

So here's the basic idea -- leave South Station at the Mezzanine level and cross the Fort Point Channel essentially under the Summer St. Bridge have portals [Charlier Card or contactless] @

• Summer & Harbor Walk
• A Street
• West Service Rd. Extension [needs a name change desperately]
• BCEC [West Side Dr.]
• Lawn on D

in the other direction leave South Station at the lower level

• and head parallel to the Red Line Tunnel to a Portal @ High Street
• and then follow High Street to Federal St Portal
• and then Follow Federal St with Portals @
  • 111 Federal [aka Great Room]
  • Franklin [BofA]
• Diagonally to P.O. Square [Leventhall Park]
• Follow Congress to Portals @
  • Milk St.
  • Congress Square
  • Blue Line -- the long missing Red / Blue Connection also Orange
  • Backside of City Hall Plaza
  • Bulfinch Crossing [Green & Orange]
• Diagonal to Friend @ Market
• Follow Friend to Portals@
  • Valenti Way
  • Hub on Causeway
  • North Station -- the long awaited connector between North and South Stations

Only one drawback is speed today is limited to 0.65 m/s or 125 ft / sec so the complete trek from South Station to North Station would be about 2 km and at say an average of 0.5 m/sec -- today that would take 4,000 seconds

However, the new linear induction drives with acceleration for the long hauls can get up to 2m/sec cutting the time to 1000 seconds

Brochure on the Accel [expanding pallet linear motor drive] moving walkway
http://accel.thyssenkrupp-elevator.com/assets/pdf/thyssenkrupp-ACCEL-Brochure-en.pdf

Anyway -- time to think way outside the traditional box

 

[CSTH]

Anyway -- time to think way outside the traditional box

Note - it is not actually time to think outside the traditional box.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Why not build a fucking hyperloop if we're wanking off outside the traditional box not attempting to solve real-world problems? The test track hasn't carried any humans yet, so technically it hasn't killed any humans yet.

 

[dwash59]

Anyway -- time to think way outside the traditional box

It is so out of the box, it is almost like Boston didn't propose the longest moving walkway in the world a year ago...

 

[Arlington]

Focus on getting more out of what we have. The beauty of bus lanes is that

1) Very low ROW capital costs; mostly paint, signs and with a bit of signals..practically an operations budget item (not capital budget)

2) Fabulous return on vehicles we already have:
- trips are faster & shorter for people (who like "fast")
- fleet delivers more trips per hour (greater productivity)

3) Lane could move airport/courtesy/commuter/corporate/convention/shuttle buses too.

At that rate, all 3 Seaport arteries should have a Bus/HOV3+ lane
- Summer (to Black Falcon from DTX/SS or Stuart/Kneeland)
- Congress (to Black Falcon from NS/Haymarket)
- Northern (to D from Artery/Aquarium/NS)

And we can worry later whether it is actual MBTA rolling stock or just that we make a rip-roaring success of the employer & hotel & convention shuttles.

 

[tangent]

Here's a novel solution

Don't bother digging a big hole for transit vehicles -- dig a much smaller hole for a moving walkway such as ThyssenKrupp Elevator Iwalk

Currently each segment is limited to 100m although that is changing with new innovative linear induction drives [no chains and sprockets] -- see accel in development

from their 2015 pdf
[urrl]http://thyssenkruppelevator.com/downloads/iWalk_advantages.pdf[/url]
https://www.thyssenkruppelevator.com/downloads/EscalatorCatalog.pdf
-- here is the capacity

Sao Paolo, Brazil

Note if the slope is minimal there is no need for a pit the walk just sits on top of an existing floor

So here's the basic idea -- leave South Station at the Mezzanine level and cross the Fort Point Channel essentially under the Summer St. Bridge have portals [Charlier Card or contactless] @

• Summer & Harbor Walk
• A Street
• West Service Rd. Extension [needs a name change desperately]
• BCEC [West Side Dr.]
• Lawn on D

in the other direction leave South Station at the lower level

• and head parallel to the Red Line Tunnel to a Portal @ High Street
• and then follow High Street to Federal St Portal
• and then Follow Federal St with Portals @
  • 111 Federal [aka Great Room]
  • Franklin [BofA]
• Diagonally to P.O. Square [Leventhall Park]
• Follow Congress to Portals @
  • Milk St.
  • Congress Square
  • Blue Line -- the long missing Red / Blue Connection also Orange
  • Backside of City Hall Plaza
  • Bulfinch Crossing [Green & Orange]
• Diagonal to Friend @ Market
• Follow Friend to Portals@
  • Valenti Way
  • Hub on Causeway
  • North Station -- the long awaited connector between North and South Stations

Only one drawback is speed today is limited to 0.65 m/s or 125 ft / sec so the complete trek from South Station to North Station would be about 2 km and at say an average of 0.5 m/sec -- today that would take 4,000 seconds

However, the new linear induction drives with acceleration for the long hauls can get up to 2m/sec cutting the time to 1000 seconds


Anyway -- time to think way outside the traditional box

Try a moving walkway in the existing Winter Street concourse, see how it goes.

 

[whighlander]

Why not build a fucking hyperloop if we're wanking off outside the traditional box not attempting to solve real-world problems? The test track hasn't carried any humans yet, so technically it hasn't killed any humans yet.

F-Line -- actually a progenitor has been carrying passengers in Toronto at Pearson Airport since about 2008

World fastest moving walkway (travolator), ThyssenKrupp Express Walkway

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRX_CJvfYyU&t=3s

and the real thing is running inside the TK research & development centre in Gijon Spain

Thyssen Krupp presenta Accel, un sistema para incremetar el área de influencia de las redes de metro

http://www.urban-hub.com/ideas/a-rapid-shift-in-urban-mobility-picking-up-the-pace-for-commuters/

 

[citylover94]

Um he was referring to the hyperloop as not having killed anyone yet not a moving walkway. I am pretty sure everyone nows moving walkways are safe. Not sure how you conflated the Hyperloop and a fast moving walkway?

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Guys, he's threadshitting the topic into the ground with Wiki-diarrhea and gigantic JPEG's for the lulz of making it impossible to talk about a stinking bus route. Stop giving this behavior the benefit of the doubt. The same exact thing is happening in the Somerville HS thread with the same time stamps.

 

[tysmith95]

Whigh is the king of irrelevant information.

 

[bakgwailo]

Focus on getting more out of what we have. The beauty of bus lanes is that

1) Very low ROW capital costs; mostly paint, signs and with a bit of signals..practically an operations budget item (not capital budget)

Eh, I would like to see some sort of physical barrier or something to protect the ROW - only because Boston drivers in my experience don't ever care about painted 'dedicated' bus lanes.

 

[JeffDowntown]

Eh, I would like to see some sort of physical barrier or something to protect the ROW - only because Boston drivers in my experience don't ever care about painted 'dedicated' bus lanes.

My experience as well. Painted bus lanes are a waste of paint. Totally useless in Boston. Classic example -- Essex Street and the Silver Line bus lane. Which is ALWAYS clogged with traffic. Zero enforcement.

 

[jass]

Im on team moving walkway

 

[whighlander]

Guys, he's threadshitting the topic into the ground with Wiki-diarrhea and gigantic JPEG's for the lulz of making it impossible to talk about a stinking bus route. Stop giving this behavior the benefit of the doubt. The same exact thing is happening in the Somerville HS thread with the same time stamps.

F-line -- for a few posts on a few threads you were becoming civil and mostly informative -- then you fell off the proverbial wagon again

You have to be more tolerant of people who don't give a flying fig about how many bolts need to be tightened every night and why the union had to do the bolt tightening

I'll bet you word count of endlessly repeating the same shtick on each thread is much higher than mine

Focus on what you do best -- contributing a lot of valuable operational and practical information with respect to the T

 

[tysmith95]

^F-Line knows more about the T and transportation in general than everyone else on this forum combined. Also I agree with him that there is no reason to post huge JPEGs of moving walkways, we all know what a damm moving walkway looks like. Also a moving walkway between North Station would be long, expensive, and provide none of the benefits of reducing capacity restraints at North Station and South Station. Currently North Station has an easy connection with Back Bay Station using the orange line so I don't see the need to create a moving walkway or another form of alternative transportation to connect the two stations. An actual rail connection would be much more effective.

 

[dwash59]

F-Line -- actually a progenitor has been carrying passengers in Toronto at Pearson Airport since about 2008

that has significantly lower reliability than any line on the MBTA.

Quoting from yelp reviews of the airport:

U.S. customs is heavy at Pearson, the express walkway was broken down

half the time the moving walkway is not in service

It's new but the moving walkway is always broken when I arrive

express moving walkways are always broken

Or wikipedia (admittedly without citation and a dubious tag, but represents someone's opinion):

It has been branded as the fastest moving walkway in the world when it is operating, which is rarely

Sounds like a dream system we should quickly adopt, definitely one we should invest the money for building 5 underground stations in the Seaport for, not to mention 10+ downtown.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

F-line -- for a few posts on a few threads you were becoming civil and mostly informative -- then you fell off the proverbial wagon again

You have to be more tolerant of people who don't give a flying fig about how many bolts need to be tightened every night and why the union had to do the bolt tightening

I'll bet you word count of endlessly repeating the same shtick on each thread is much higher than mine

Focus on what you do best -- contributing a lot of valuable operational and practical information with respect to the T

No, Professor Asshole, you need to realize that just because you don't give a flying fig what's being talked about doesn't give you the right or obligation to heap thread-derail refuse all over the place so NOBODY is allowed to talk about what you don't want to talk about. You find the non-Logan transpo topics trite and boring...so you make sure the transpo topics are bombed to complete non-functioning. And then fling the stuff we aren't allowed to talk about--like funding schemes--in our faces as proof positive of how futile it is to even try.

You have the complete freedom to not participate in what you find boring, or start topics on what you do find interesting. You don't do that. You bury threads and set fallacy bear traps to drag them completely into the gutter. You...and Capt. Tall Building over the dev forum...are the Numero Uno and Numero Dos bad actors discouraging discussion on these forums and making the traffic dry up. Because you've made it not worth putting up with the signal-to-noise. And this is exactly how you like it.


I am not going to be tolerant of born assholes who fling their own intolerance in the face of unmoderated online communities for the puerile thrill of watching the world burn. If you don't want to deal with these forums on-the-level...you can get bent.

 

[whighlander]

No, Professor Asshole, you need to realize that just because you don't give a flying fig what's being talked about doesn't give you the right or obligation to heap thread-derail refuse all over the place so NOBODY is allowed to talk about what you don't want to talk about. You find the non-Logan transpo topics trite and boring...so you make sure the transpo topics are bombed to complete non-functioning. And then fling the stuff we aren't allowed to talk about--like funding schemes--in our faces as proof positive of how futile it is to even try.

You have the complete freedom to not participate in what you find boring, or start topics on what you do find interesting. You don't do that. You bury threads and set fallacy bear traps to drag them completely into the gutter. You...and Capt. Tall Building over the dev forum...are the Numero Uno and Numero Dos bad actors discouraging discussion on these forums and making the traffic dry up. Because you've made it not worth putting up with the signal-to-noise. And this is exactly how you like it.

F-Line -- Its so great to raise the discussion by just launching ad hominem attacks

I give you credit for where you have expertise -- No one challenges you when you give us the latest scoop on some thing the T is currently doing [well there are couple of other rail transit folks who occasionally might argue a detail or two] -- However -- when you get into discussion of things such as the economics of a proposal let alone the systems engineering -- let's just say that Big Papi was a terrific DH and leave it at that

 

[whighlander]

that has significantly lower reliability than any line on the MBTA.

Sounds like a dream system we should quickly adopt, definitely one we should invest the money for building 5 underground stations in the Seaport for, not to mention 10+ downtown.

Dwash -- if you bother to take a look at the video from TK linked in my post you would see that the Seaport and downtown Boston could easily have dozens of highish speed moving walkways as the scale of the distances involved are just about ideal [within 500 m per link]

Admittedly, the video is marketing material -- yet the technology is real and is advancing in airports and connecting to metro stations in numerous locations around the world

Its just truly amazing to see people who take GPS and Wifi for granted are still hooked on a technology which was born about when Edison invented the Lightbulb and Bell the Telephone and had antecedents back to James Watt

 

[bakgwailo]

Its just truly amazing to see people who take GPS and Wifi for granted are still hooked on a technology which was born about when Edison invented the Lightbulb and Bell the Telephone and had antecedents back to James Watt

The first moving sidewalk debuted in 1893, and, I am sure, just like rail (and automobiles from the 1870s onward, and their prototypes before that) they have progressed in technology over the years - just like the light bulb and telephone has. That said a giant collection of underground moving sidewalks for seaport transportation and north/south linkage seems, well, as asinine as a monorail, or PRT solutions. It is kind of amazing how much current tech (including GPS) are just improvements on ideas/methods from hundreds to thousands of years ago. Then again I don't take either GPS or Wifi for granted, and I am very well aware of how they work.