City Hall Discussion - Redevelopment - Preservation - Relocation

When discussing City Hall I think it's always important to figure out whether the person arguing for its demolition is coming from a "I hate the building itself" or an "I hate the building because of the plaza". Architecturally I think the building itself is interesting and worth keeping.

Ideally I think City Hall the building can be "fixed" by a good architecture team that understands Brutalism and also how to retrofit buildings to make them more engaging. That's going to be hard to find and expensive, but doable if preservation is desired. Fixing the situation on Congress would be a massive improvement.

As for the Plaza. I'd build over a chunk of it while leaving a wedge of sorts that allowed a view coming up Tremont.
 
i believe within 25 years this building will be gone.

if we can do the Big Dig, we sure as hell can replace this albatross.
 
PropJoe... all worthy arguments. I agree with your assessment of BPL and CSC. No doubt, City Hall represents challenges, even for those who appreciate its form. I bet even McKinnell might grudgingly agree.

By diversity I mean a "time-line" of the city. A city without a time-line, good examples and bad, is like a person without a biography. (Apologies for repeating myself.) Not everything has to be the best example of itself. A "diversity" of style and experience is a worthy goal.

True, we can't save everything. But this building identifies an epoch in Boston that I think would be a shame to lose. But that's me.

That said, hard to argue with the people who find the place hard to live in and work in. Indeed, that may be the most telling argument of all. That, and the quality of things we build these days - most of which I find wanting.
 
meddlepal said:
Ideally I think City Hall the building can be "fixed" by a good architecture team that understands Brutalism and also how to retrofit buildings to make them more engaging. That's going to be hard to find and expensive, but doable if preservation is desired. Fixing the situation on Congress would be a massive improvement.

As for the Plaza. I'd build over a chunk of it while leaving a wedge of sorts that allowed a view coming up Tremont.
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this ^^^
 
meddlepal said:
Ideally I think City Hall the building can be "fixed" by a good architecture team that understands Brutalism and also how to retrofit buildings to make them more engaging. That's going to be hard to find and expensive, but doable if preservation is desired. Fixing the situation on Congress would be a massive improvement.
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Those architects are not really hard to find. We know who they are because they have been fixing other local Brutalist buildings:

Tufts Dental School: ARC/Architectural Resources Cambridge

BPL Johnson Building: William Rawn Associates, Architects, Inc.
 
I would really like to see it demolished while some of those who designed it are still alive, so they can die in shame as sad, bitter, broken, failures, knowing that their proudest creation is nothing but rubble while the citizens rejoice.
 
Semass said:
I would really like to see it demolished while some of those who designed it are still alive, so they can die in shame as sad, bitter, broken, failures, knowing that their proudest creation is nothing but rubble while the citizens rejoice.
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Edgy.
 
Lrfox said:
Agreed, and by renovating it, you're certain to retain a unique, landmark building vs. the alternative which could be another dime a dozen structure. My only concern is what, if anything, can be done with the Congress Street side to improve the pedestrian experience.
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If that was a big glazed wall with restaurant / commercial space, right across Fanieull Hall, it would be great.
 
Semass said:
I would really like to see it demolished while some of those who designed it are still alive, so they can die in shame as sad, bitter, broken, failures, knowing that their proudest creation is nothing but rubble while the citizens rejoice.
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That statement is at best cruel. The designers competed for that building and many many people chose them, guided them, and worked with them. Because the experiment of brutalism never connected with the general pubic does not mean that brilliant people should be ashamed of their work.

If a building makes you as bitter as you sound, I would suggest therapy. I guarantee that Bruce and Michael (the designers by the way) did not need any therapy while they were alive. They remained proud and rightfully so.

cca
 
cca said:
That statement is at best cruel. The designers competed for that building and many many people chose them, guided them, and worked with them. Because the experiment of brutalism never connected with the general pubic does not mean that brilliant people should be ashamed of their work.

If a building makes you as bitter as you sound, I would suggest therapy. I guarantee that Bruce and Michael (the designers by the way) did not need any therapy while they were alive. They remained proud and rightfully so.

cca
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I don't think he needs therapy, but jesus that is really a cruel thing to say.
 
mdd said:
If that was a big glazed wall with restaurant / commercial space, right across Fanieull Hall, it would be great.
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Absolutely. Is it possible and feasible from an engineering standpoint (while preserving city hall)?

If it's possible, that's the ideal solution. I'm not a big fan of Brutalism, although I appreciate it (I work in the Lindemann, so sometimes appreciating it takes effort) and see the value in preserving it (with modifications). I've spent a lot of time at UMD (pre and post renovation) and see how nicely it can be done.
 
Lrfox said:
Absolutely. Is it possible and feasible from an engineering standpoint (while preserving city hall)?

If it's possible, that's the ideal solution. I'm not a big fan of Brutalism, although I appreciate it (I work in the Lindemann, so sometimes appreciating it takes effort) and see the value in preserving it (with modifications). I've spent a lot of time at UMD (pre and post renovation) and see how nicely it can be done.
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Yes, of course it can be done. Not a question of engineering. And if it is leased as commercial space then it is a question of cost/benefit versus spending money on City Hall that could otherwise build a new school or fund some other city program.

It will require the Mayor to rethink City Hall and reorganize its function though. Transferring paper records off site, making sure they are online and accessible at branch city offices in the neighborhoods and decreasing the square footage needed for offices and filing cabinets at City Hall itself. Really these changes are well underway, so it is about realizing the benefits of what should be freed up space at ground level.

I believe behind those exceedingly ugly blank brick walls along Congress St is the assessing department. It might be a large cultural shift and eye adjustment to give the folks that work among the ground level filing cabinets natural sunlight again. But once you make sure all that data is accessible via computer, then you just need a few computer workstations for customer service and there should be plenty of office and meeting space available on upper floors.
 
Semass said:
I would really like to see it demolished while some of those who designed it are still alive, so they can die in shame as sad, bitter, broken, failures, knowing that their proudest creation is nothing but rubble while the citizens rejoice.
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UCSD's Geisel Library

https://library.ucsd.edu/_images/Main/geisel-building-1.jpg

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...inistration/uVepG6mrgozjlrpgtQuQIN/story.html

We build as a community. Keven White, his revolving door of BRA directors, and City Council deserve the blame. Submit a bad design, and it should die on the vine. If they had built it right, we'd probably still be calling for a new Govt Center + City Hall by now anyway.

The behemoths need to be craters in the next cycle.
 
cca said:
Because the experiment of brutalism never connected with the general pubic does not mean that brilliant people should be ashamed of their work.
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I think it's worth pointing out that a lot of our brutalist buildings don't even function as they were designed. If you think back to how they were when the originally opened (both City Hall and the GSA), there were many public areas that are not awkwardly fenced off.
 
sm89 said:
I think it's worth pointing out that a lot of our brutalist buildings don't even function as they were designed. If you think back to how they were when the originally opened (both City Hall and the GSA), there were many public areas that are now awkwardly fenced off.
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I recall something in the past few weeks about the security perimeter making it less friendly to the public... Seems they could pull back the metal detectors quite a bit if they made all the lower levels public spaces instead of government offices and pulled back the perimeter to just the elevators and entrance to the mayor's offices instead of the entire lobby. Would have to take another look at the layout, but it was definitely meant to be a public space and not just government offices.
 
tangent said:
I recall something in the past few weeks about the security perimeter making it less friendly to the public... Seems they could pull back the metal detectors quite a bit if they made all the lower levels public spaces instead of government offices and pulled back the perimeter to just the elevators and entrance to the mayor's offices instead of the entire lobby. Would have to take another look at the layout, but it was definitely meant to be a public space and not just government offices.
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I don't see that as likely, since a lot of what they are protecting against is a backpack bomber. Kind of need to protect the public spaces as well as the office levels.
 
JeffDowntown said:
I don't see that as likely, since a lot of what they are protecting against is a backpack bomber. Kind of need to protect the public spaces as well as the office levels.
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Tactics change... Now it is the security line itself which is the vulnerable target. As we have seen in Europe. Having fewer people queuing up to go through one vulnerable choke point would be better.
 
tangent said:
Tactics change... Now it is the security line itself which is the vulnerable target. As we have seen in Europe. Having fewer people queuing up to go through one vulnerable choke point would be better.
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In what parallel universe would people willingly go to City Hall to just hang out in the public space? People go to City Hall to conduct business with the City.
 
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