Winthrop Center | 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

It got chopped down so much I dont think its going to be visible from across the harbor. So your just gonna see mt in the center of the skyline and this off to the side. How bad this looks its good it got chopped down because its not going to make that big of an impact. Pretty much going to be tall filler for the crown jewel MT. O well. Overall its bad but why another flat roof? I thought we do slant roofs now. I think the flat roof is going to add to its anonymity and itll really be filler and your eye is still gonna draw to MT. Its probably gonna seem shorter too when looking towards downtown since its further away than MT if not itll look about the same height but I still think your eye will still go to MT. Thank god we got that tower.

They really need to throw a new tallest at the corner of city hall plaza preferably with a spire.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

stick n move said:
They really need to throw a new tallest at the corner of city hall plaza preferably with a spire.
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A spire would go a long way to helping our downtown skyline. Agree with that 100%.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Just emailed the city to express my discontent for the facade. Told them I really support this project, but felt it would be an eyesore on the skyline for years.

Please do the same, it only took a minute! casey.a.hines@boston.gov
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

And if anyone sees Marty out and about, it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to mention it in person quickly, too.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

cjbski said:
Just emailed the city to express my discontent for the facade. Told them I really support this project, but felt it would be an eyesore on the skyline for years.

Please do the same, it only took a minute! casey.a.hines@boston.gov
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Here is my response:

Hello Casey,

Your email was provided on www.archboston.org forum pages. I have never written to any government official about a development project before, but I was so disappointed with the latest iteration of the 115 Winthrop Square proposal that came out on January 2nd 2018, that I just had to write an email. I’m an architect and citizen of the Greater Boston region for more than 30 years. I’m in public office myself with membership in the Scituate Planning Board and involvement with the South Shore Coalition and our local Design Review Board.

I don’t necessarily mind that the height of the proposal was reduced based on FAA regulations and shadow laws. However, the massing, materials, and new renderings are anything but iconic. This was supposed to be an iconic tower for the city with many public amenities. I followed the initial proposals and was generally happy with the selection of Millennium Partners as the developer. I think the Millennium Tower at Downtown crossing came out very nice, and they do very good work.

The initial proposal for the Great Hall reminded me of BCE Place in Toronto, designed by noted architect Santiago Calatrava. This new iteration is more of a standard office lobby with little architectural interest.

The massing of the tower should reflect on the amazingly forward-thinking city of Boston. A lighted crown, observation deck, or non-flat roof should be a new symbol of the progressive power of Boston. This latest 115 Winthrop Square proposal is completely mediocre and “infill” architecture at best. It looks more like the AVA Avalon Apartments on Stuart Street.

The general program and function is acceptable with changes to the tower massing or crown and changes to the Great Hall. I would hope the new BPDA gives a serious consideration for some major rework to make this structure a true “icon” and asset to the city of Boston. In my opinion, I believe it falls quite short of this in the current configuration.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Fantastic.....

We might also mention the tired, multiple facade themes, putrid AVA style floor subgrouping and crazy offset windows. Maybe for a 250' vertical midrise shoehorned in Bay Village. People are aghast at the thought of something that ridiculous being attempted on a 200m skyscraper.

Stick, SST, and MT will outshine 115 Winpuke from many parts of the City.....

The BPDA's harsh treatment of ~705' at 1 Bromfield is looking more regrettable.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Ok, mania aside for a moment - is this actually what MP is proposing now or is it just an updated render / WIP. If an actual new design vs. what was awarded, I would imagine the the BPDA would have a lot of questions. If so, what is the chance that MP is told to stick to the design that was approved or they are sent packing?
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

An obs deck was a requirement that was offest by the great hall. Since the hall is no longer great I want my obs deck back. This should be being discussed. You dont get to have a big lobby to remove your obs deck requirement. This is a shit show but they have time to start from scratch again. Go tp to the 720 or so feet allowed- not sure why theyre building it shorter than is allowed, thats money on the table. Fix great hall, get obs deck, complete redo of tower then well talk. Its not like piling has started this can easily change again. We must demand an icon. Throwing up a turd on the most coveted parcel of the last 20 years that is essentialy the last one left do or die development this is unacceptable. No shovels are in the ground let the public speak, we all know millennium can deliver. Lets get this done right. Scrap this entire new iteration. Shit ill design it better myself for free if they want.

We know what theyre capable of lets get that but their absolute best we deserve it. Were a historical city that deserves greatness. Mt needs to go all out and make this their crown jewel development. This rght here is so unacceptable i feel disrespected that were just supposed to accept this. No, no...

Icon right here right now, nothing less. Hell id see if the Faa would allow a thin lit spire to go here too. We need less flat toofs and spires, oh yea and not shit design at the last 700’ range parcel thats going to be there forever. Boston has an amazing supporting cast thats where u get a few icons to rise above and tie it all in together. We get an icon here no less, we must demand it.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Czervik.Construction said:
Ok, mania aside for a moment - is this actually what MP is proposing now or is it just an updated render / WIP. If an actual new design vs. what was awarded, I would imagine the the BPDA would have a lot of questions. If so, what is the chance that MP is told to stick to the design that was approved or they are sent packing?
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The approved design was a good bit taller then the current one. I'm not sure you could do an exact match.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

tysmith95 said:
The approved design was a good bit taller then the current one. I'm not sure you could do an exact match.
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Lol, "approved design." If you'll recall, the initial set of renderings released accompanied the... RFP round which Millennium won. Thus they couldn't have been farther from "approved" than possible [as far as I'm aware]. There's still a lot of design review ahead.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Dear Mr. Hines,

Subject: Winthrop Garage

I am very disappointed in the result of Millennium group has changed the design of the original proposal after winning the overall BID after the city got 4 amazing proposed developments. After seeing how Millennium is dealing with the sinking San Francisco skyscraper and how Boston officials generously gave an extra 15 Million dollar tax incentive to get the Downtown skyscraper started. I feel like the overall Taxpaying citizens have been fooled once again with deceitful and bidrigging tactics between city officials and the Millennium group.

I believe Millennium group has breached the contract and the city should return its initial deposit and restart the bids again or a proper investigation should be launched on the overall process for Millennium group winning this bid on their original proposal only to completely change the original design of the proposal.

How could the city, BRA officials be this blatantly careless concerning the bidding for this priceless well located a garage.

"Fool me once, shame on...shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

Sincerely,
TheRifleman
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

The city is getting 153 million for this. No tax breaks. Why did you bring up tax breaks?
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

I'm in:

Good afternoon, Ms. Hines --

Having taken some time to review the renderings of Handel Architects' new scheme for Winthrop Square, I feel compelled to communicate my puzzled disappointment to the BPDA. Though I've never been impressed with Handel's anodyne work here in Boston, their initial proposal for this site showcased a set of architectural gestures that responded to the site's awkward shape and mitigated the tower's girth by enhancing its verticality.

The recently revised plan omits these gestures entirely, replacing them with an unfocused collection of elements assembled to spellbindingly cartoonish effect, as if a child with a bucket of Legos took the lead on the design team. Further, the seemingly opulent materials convey an aura of tastelessness worthy of a 70s pimpmobile. In short, I can't imagine this building looking attractive on any site on earth.

As a lifelong Boston resident with a deep interest in our built environment, I hope that you and your colleagues at the BPDA, working in conjunction with the BCDC, send Millennium Partners and their architects back to the drawing board. To clarify, my objections to this proposal are not a matter of height, scale, or density, but the absolutely repulsive articulation of the facade.

This site deserves better; I trust that you'll communicate this sentiment to the proponents.
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Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

tysmith95 said:
The city is getting 153 million for this. No tax breaks. Why did you bring up tax breaks?
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Because this group is a bunch of well politically connected Weasels.

It's funny how ROTH (Vornado asked Menino administration for tax breaks to get Downtown started)

Menino went bananas about asking the city for money only to force the sale to the millennium group only for the Menino administration to start issuing the tax incentives to the group.

Its all bullshit at this point.

I had no problem with the original proposal and was glad that the city chose the Millennium group from the start. But now seeing this Millennium group is showing their true colors at this point.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

TheRifleman said:
Because this group is a bunch of well politically connected Weasels.

It's funny how ROTH (Vornado asked Menino administration for tax breaks to get Downtown started)

Menino went bananas about asking the city for money only to force the sale to the millennium group only for the Menino administration to start issuing the tax incentives to the group.

Its all bullshit at this point.

I had no problem with the original proposal and was glad that the city chose the Millennium group from the start. But now seeing this Millennium group is showing their true colors at this point.
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Of the 6 proposals they offered much more in money then any other proposal. So the city took it. The primary purpose of the bid was to get the most money for the city at that spot. Your paragraph references tax breaks
with regards to this project. That is far from the truth.

Menino has been dead for years so I don't see how he's relevant.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

TheRifleman said:
... Boston officials generously gave an extra 15 Million dollar tax incentive ...
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tysmith95 said:
The city is getting 153 million for this. No tax breaks. Why did you bring up tax breaks?
Click to expand...

TheRifleman said:
Because this group is a bunch of well politically connected Weasels.

It's funny how ROTH (Vornado asked Menino administration for tax breaks to get Downtown started)

Menino went bananas about asking the city for money only to force the sale to the millennium group only for the Menino administration to start issuing the tax incentives to the group.

Its all bullshit at this point.

I had no problem with the original proposal and was glad that the city chose the Millennium group from the start. But now seeing this Millennium group is showing their true colors at this point.
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The correct response is "Oh, gosh, I'm sorry. I was mistaken."

The next time you get the facts of the matter completely backwards, it would be best to admit your mistake instead of going on a tirade about something completely unrelated.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

Truth. Not to mention that makes everybody else that emails them look less informed. If were emailing them about the problems with the site get the facts straight first or else nobody is going to be taken serious.
 
Re: 115 Winthrop Square | Financial District

fattony said:
The correct response is "Oh, gosh, I'm sorry. I was mistaken."

The next time you get the facts of the matter completely backwards, it would be best to admit your mistake instead of going on a tirade about something completely unrelated.
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What are you talking about?

Millennium, Group got tax breaks for the downtown tower.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/busines...te-downtown/6SMPxyscMGzrXtMFJPysdK/story.html

"the city will provide $7,800,000 in tax breaks over 13 years to speed the project's development."

Why didn't Menino just make a deal with Roth (Vornado) and give him the taxpayers money? Because he wasn't politically connected like this scummy group.

https://commonwealthmagazine.org/economy/the-view-from-10m-up/
Ron Rakow, the city of Boston's assessor, says tax bills haven't gone out to individual owners at Millennium Tower yet, but he estimates the 442 condo units will yield $10 to $11 million.
"It sure sounds like they need some tax breaks"

No matter who the city of Boston choose they would have had to pay 160-175Million for the garage for the rights to build a skyscraper on such a well located garage. Which is truly very cheap on the prices of Units going for downtown.

Millennium group is building a piece of shit to offset anytype of risk at this point.

The BRA should have really did their due diligence concerning the sinking skyscraper on how this group is handling that situation. I would not let this company build another building in this city again after no accountability concerning that situation.
 
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