The New Retail Thread

[JeffDowntown]

lol, when did Denver become a concrete wasteland? It's obviously not anywhere near the density of Boston, but concrete wasteland paints it as some hideous place, which is certainly isn't. I do agree that the density makes it easier to deploy food truck here vs Boston, but I think there are other reasons you see such a gap between a place like Boston & Denver. One stark difference is the number of breweries here vs Boston. I count 24 total in Boston, Cambridge, Somerville, Everett, Chelsea and Malden on this map (https://craftbeerboston.com/breweries-map/), but Denver has 29 in its central neighborhoods alone, and something like 50-60 in the city proper (http://denverbreweryguide.com/breweries.aspx). Furthermore, the bulk of those are taprooms-only with no food, which is more of a recent-phenomenon in Boston if I'm not mistaken (didn't Blue Laws require any place that serves alcohol to also serve food or something like that?). Boston can definitely catch up in this area, as the Boston area is producing some of the best beer in the world.

Craft breweries & Food Trucks generally cater to younger crowds, and these days the younger crowds like to be in more urban areas...so while Denver certainly isn't Boston when it comes to urbanity, a lot of these food trucks are principally operating out of urban areas. Breweries simply carve out some parking spots in front of their place and let the trucks park there. There's no reason something like that can't be done in Boston.

The biggest problem I see is the horrific license & permit restrictions. The average cost of licenses & permits on that list is $1,864...Boston is $17,066!!!!! The next most expensive is Seattle at $6,211, nearly 1/3 of the cost! People running food trucks are often young, cash-strapped individuals. $17k is a massive barrier to entry and I can't see how it makes any sense in any world that it's literally 10x more expensive to obtain these permits than in other major cities. Can anyone explain this?

Concrete Wasteland was merely noting that places like Denver and Houston have lots of big wide avenues running across the city (usually in a grid). It is probably overly harsh.

Yes, the licensing issues in Boston are a bit insane.

 

[Suffolk 83]

Old Navy in DTX is probably getting crushed by Primark

 

[tmac9wr]

If a food truck operator has a solid business model and a competitive product, a bank will provide a loan for the ‘young, cash-strapped individuals’ needing money to secure the licenses & permits for a food truck in any city.

Food trucks oftentimes offer unconventional or ethnic foods from places people aren't familiar with...stuff banks aren't necessarily going to give out a loan for a business for. Beyond that, I think you're missing the point: people shouldn't have to get out a bank loan just to get permits to operate in an industry like this--especially when no major city in the country has even 1/4 of the permit fees that Boston does (except for Seattle which has 35% of the fees of Boston)!

I imagine those licenses are for one year. So to answer your question of how Boston lands at $17,066, I would look at the bigger picture of the operation. For starters, compare the cost of those fees with the average cost of a retail space in Greater Boston for a small retail business—to be located downtown or in the Back Bay, $1,450/month would be highway robbery!

In regards to rent, you could absolutely say the same about places like San Francisco ($3,481 for permits; 20% of Boston cost), New York City ($1,075 for permits; 6% of Boston cost) or Washington DC ($2,720 for permits; 16% of Boston cost). I don't think you'd be able to convince anyone that Boston's permits should be between 5-15 times more costly than three of the other most expensive cities in the country.

If a food truck is selling product x and sales are forecast on the middle range to high end, I think Boston’s relatively high fees are worth it for a savvy food truck operator. Boston means business: if you don’t know what you’re doing, then get some experience first to build confidence before taking the risk.

That's the conventional thinking that food trucks don't follow. When it comes to this sort of thing, maybe Boston shouldn't mean business. Maybe it should let its hair down a bit. Massachusetts can relax some of its permit/alcohol laws without turning into Portland, OR and I think it'd be better off for it.

 

[mass88]

That's the conventional thinking that food trucks don't follow. When it comes to this sort of thing, maybe Boston shouldn't mean business. Maybe it should let its hair down a bit. Massachusetts can relax some of its permit/alcohol laws without turning into Portland, OR and I think it'd be better off for it.

Can you please explain what you mean by the reference to Portland?

 

[tmac9wr]

Can you please explain what you mean by the reference to Portland?

Boston is generally considered buttoned-up, traditional, etc., and I think Portland, OR is considered the complete opposite...hippies, hipsters, and the intent of being whatever the opposite of traditional is.

I was trying to say Boston (and Mass too, since a lot of the laws/permits/regulations are state level) can relax a little bit when it comes to various permits & laws without losing its charm & character, and becoming a completely different place.

 

[Kinopio]

Craft breweries & Food Trucks generally cater to younger crowds, and these days the younger crowds like to be in more urban areas...so while Denver certainly isn't Boston when it comes to urbanity, a lot of these food trucks are principally operating out of urban areas. Breweries simply carve out some parking spots in front of their place and let the trucks park there. There's no reason something like that can't be done in Boston.

That is being done in Boston. I've seen food trucks parked at or catering inside at Sam Adams, Night Shift, Turtle Swamp, Dorchester Brewing, Down The Road, etc.

 

[tysmith95]

Oh wow I really like the DTX Old Navy. I wonder why they would close. Rent too high?

I'm guessing so. Plus they still have the Cambridgeside location, the Gateway Center Everett location, and the SouthBay location.

I'm dating someone who is a manager at another area Old Navy store so that's where I heard it from, not from an official source. Lots of their locations seem to be in weird spots that are separate from more popular upscale shopping areas. In Danvers they're tucked into the back of the dying Liberty Tree Mall instead of being at the more upscale Northshore Mall or the new MarketStreet in Lynnfield. They're at Gateside Plaza in Everett instead of Assembly. Also in a Burlington strip mall about a mile from the Burlington Mall where all of the upscale stores are. It seems like Old Navy's business model is to go for the cheap real estate.

I think that they should focus on making DTX more of a dining and nightlife destination. Retail isn't doing great like the economy as a whole. With the advent of online shopping retail is overbuilt.

 

[falcon42]

Not really retail but the Big Apple Circus is coming to Assembly Row in the Spring. They've started advertising for it.

 

[tmac9wr]

That is being done in Boston. I've seen food trucks parked at or catering inside at Sam Adams, Night Shift, Turtle Swamp, Dorchester Brewing, Down The Road, etc.

Oh for sure. The last time I was home I went to Nightshift and there was a food truck there, and I remember seeing one at the Trillium Beer Garden last summer too. I think it's definitely growing in Boston, but in a place like Denver it's already a mature market so it's EVERYWHERE here. I think having lots of those standalone tap rooms really helped foster a robust food truck scene.

 

[cjbski]

Fuku is opening in Seaport Square beneath 75 on Courthouse Square. (75, by the way, goes by several different names - the web site name does not match the signage -- and already looks super dated.)

Fuku's site is https://eatfuku.com

 

[estyle]

Not really retail but the Big Apple Circus is coming to Assembly Row in the Spring. They've started advertising for it.

So not to City Hall Plaza?

 

[Lrfox]

Fuku is opening in Seaport Square beneath 75 on Courthouse Square. (75, by the way, goes by several different names - the web site name does not match the signage -- and already looks super dated.)

Fuku's site is https://eatfuku.com

Is this their first location outside of NYC?

 

[cjbski]

Is this their first location outside of NYC?

Yes. Kind of awesome. All part of the Momofuku group -- and last I heard they're working to open a Milk Bar location in Harvard Square.

 

[mass88]

Boston is generally considered buttoned-up, traditional, etc., and I think Portland, OR is considered the complete opposite...hippies, hipsters, and the intent of being whatever the opposite of traditional is.

I was trying to say Boston (and Mass too, since a lot of the laws/permits/regulations are state level) can relax a little bit when it comes to various permits & laws without losing its charm & character, and becoming a completely different place.

What are some of the things Boston could relax on?

 

[jl326]

Yes. Kind of awesome. All part of the Momofuku group -- and last I heard they're working to open a Milk Bar location in Harvard Square.

Are they good? I saw the signage in Seaport, had no idea it was from NYC. Yelp reviews indicate nothing more than mediocre (3.5 avg. but take Yelp for whatever it's worth), though Google reviews average much higher.

Either way, even though it is a chain, I'm glad it's not one that is everywhere. Also, here's yet another cheap grub place for those who complain that there aren't enough cheap food options in the area.

 

[atlantaden]

Fuku, fun name though, some might find it quite offensive depending on how one reads it! I will be surprised if there arn't a few complaints to city hall or someplace where one complains about such things. After all, the city didn't get it's more reserved, button-down reputation for nothing.

 

[jl326]

Fuku, fun name though, some might find it quite offensive depending on how one reads it! I will be surprised if there arn't a few complaints to city hall or someplace where one complains about such things.

Well, this will be a test won't it? Already a handful of them in NYC and no problem as far as I know. Let's see how quickly offended us Boston Puritans can be. By the way, am I the only one who does a slight pause and double-take when I hear someone say Honeygrow or Minigrow quickly out loud?

 

[Bos77]

What are some of the things Boston could relax on?

Closing hours of literally anything at night, outdoor drinking without requirement of having to eat shitty food, no dogs in restaurants, pubs, outdoor patios, etc. Happy Hour, anyone?

I'm not even a big drinker (most of the time), but find these little things to be grating annoyances - either from living or visiting other places where all this is non-issue - OR - having guests visit the city and being embarrassingly reprimanded at every corner.

The one thing Boston gets surprisingly right.. no measured pours. Suck on that UK, Canada, and Australia.

 

[FenwayResident]

Are they good? I saw the signage in Seaport, had no idea it was from NYC. Yelp reviews indicate nothing more than mediocre (3.5 avg. but take Yelp for whatever it's worth), though Google reviews average much higher.

Either way, even though it is a chain, I'm glad it's not one that is everywhere. Also, here's yet another cheap grub place for those who complain that there aren't enough cheap food options in the area.

I've been to the NYC ones a fair amount and I'd give them a B+. It's a solid fried chicken shop but nothing extraordinary. They also have pretty good salad options, so they should draw a big lunch crowd. Definitely a good pickup for the Seaport and will help balance all of the corporate expense account restaurants there.

 

[cjbski]

I've been to the NYC ones a fair amount and I'd give them a B+. It's a solid fried chicken shop but nothing extraordinary. They also have pretty good salad options, so they should draw a big lunch crowd. Definitely a good pickup for the Seaport and will help balance all of the corporate expense account restaurants there.

Agreed. David Chang (James Beard winner)'s casual shop. A-la-Danny Meyer and Shake Shack.

More quick, affordable options are important for the Seaport!