Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail (South Coast Rail)

[HelloBostonHi]

Todays board update puts the project around 30% complete with an finishing date in late 2023: https://cdn.mbta.com/sites/default/files/2022-02/10. SCR MBTA Board Briefing 2.24.22.pdf

 

[Lrfox]

Todays board update puts the project around 30% complete with an finishing date in late 2023: https://cdn.mbta.com/sites/default/files/2022-02/10. SCR MBTA Board Briefing 2.24.22.pdf

One of my favorite pieces of that briefing is this:

• Note: Taunton, Fall River & New Bedford are the only 3 cities within 50 miles of Boston not served by commuter rail

What about Marlborough? Gardner? Methuen? And that's if we're only talking within the state of MA. Woonsocket, Pawtucket (technically, and for the short term), Nashua, and Manchester are all within 50 miles and without service too (Portsmouth is right on the edge).

 

[Equilibria]

One of my favorite pieces of that briefing is this:

• Note: Taunton, Fall River & New Bedford are the only 3 cities within 50 miles of Boston not served by commuter rail

What about Marlborough? Gardner? Methuen? And that's if we're only talking within the state of MA. Woonsocket, Pawtucket (technically, and for the short term), Nashua, and Manchester are all within 50 miles and without service too (Portsmouth is right on the edge).

Heck, Watertown is a city

 

[The EGE]

Consolidating some data from that table into plausible extensions (not including infills on active CR lines). Direct distance and rail distance to the terminal, new rail distance, population (of listed municipalities only), and when the last service was operated. On these metrics alone, SCR and Manchester are very similar on mileage and population. However, Manchester will likely be a more valuable extension for several reasons:

• More of the new population is closer to Boston: Nashua (115k) at 35 miles and Chelmsford (36k) at 22 miles, versus Taunton (59k) at 32 miles.
• No branching or single track, so higher frequency possible
• Enough demand to justify local-express pattern, shortening travel times compared to local-only, and giving Lowell express service as well
• Doesn't compete with Cape Cod service for limited slots

Line	Terminus	Crow	Distance	New	Population	Last service
Agricultural Branch	Clinton	32	45	23.6	73k	1931
Cape Main Line	Hyannis	63	78.5	42.9	137k	1959 (1988)
Falmouth Branch	Falmouth	60	68.5	13.5	32k	1959 (1988)
Eastern Route	Portsmouth	52	56.9	20.6	78k	1967
Essex	Danvers	16	21.4	5.1	83k	1968
Franklin	Milford	28	36.8	6.1	47k	1920 (1940)
Manchester and Lawrence	Manchester Airport	44	48.2	22.8	143k	1953
NH Main Line	Concord	63	73.3	47.7	349k	1967 (1981)
NH Main Line	Manchester	48	55.7	30.1	305k	1967 (1981)
South Coast Rail	FR/NB	46/50	57.6/61.0	36.1	288k	1958
Western Route	Dover	59	67.1	34.2	78k	1967

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

Keep the NH discussions in the NH thread.

 

[HenryAlan]

Keep the NH discussions in the NH thread.

Yeah, sorry, not sure how that happened. I had posted in what I thought was the NH thread, but then the post showed up here instead.

 

[themissinglink]

East Taunton Station Site (3/18/22)

Freetown Station Site (3/18/22)

Fall River Station Site (3/18/22)

New Bedford Station Site (3/18/22)

I'm not able to get any drone pictures at Church Street because of the nearby New Bedford Regional Airport.

 

[stick n move]

Awesome pictures!

 

[themissinglink]

Awesome pictures!

Thank you, I’ll try to upload drone shots more consistently up until SCR Phase 1 opens.

 

[themissinglink]

The Proposed FY23-27 CIP mentions "two South Coast Rail projects", I wonder what the chances of Phase 2 actually happening are.

(page 32)

EDIT: Never mind, I just realized that the second project they're mentioning is the rolling stock procurement, not Phase 2.

 

[Riverside]

Local NPR story, lamenting the Middleborough routing.

In bid for service sooner, South Coast Rail takes the long way to Boston - TPR: The Public's Radio

The MBTA is reviving train service from Boston to Fall River and New Bedford, but a series of cost-saving decisions will lead to slower, less frequent service than commuters were initially promised.

thepublicsradio.org

 

[Rover]

The implication that you can commute by car from NB to Boston in less than 90 minutes during rush hour is grade A horseshit. I realize the writer is trying to get cute by not explicitly stating that, but he does state that is the average commuting time by car, while leaving out that's with no traffic or road construction.

At this point SCR opponents are starting to sound like people who think you can decertify the 2020 election results. Move on people, that ship has sailed.

 

[GP40MC]

Yep...I commuted from Dartmouth to Somerville for three decades. Always left a spare 30 minutes to absorb backups and other mayhem on Route 24, 128 and the X-way. WBZ's "Traffic On The Three's" was my friend. Thought nothing of going up 128 to the Pike and coming into Boston that way if I heard of something bad on one of their reports.

 

[themissinglink]

At this point SCR opponents are starting to sound like people who think you can decertify the 2020 election results. Move on people, that ship has sailed.

Most people who criticize the Phase 1 routing are not "opponents", they simply want the South Coast to have adequate transit, which Phase 1 will not be. Providing adequate transit to the South Coast can only be achieved by building Phase 2 after Phase 1. The Stoughton routing would provide more capacity for frequent service on the Fall River/New Bedford branches than the Old Colony routing ever could.

As someone who used to live in the New Bedford area, I personally would not use SCR Phase 1 to commute or travel to/from Boston, even if it meant having to deal with living hell on Route 24 and the Southeast Expressway. This is entirely because of the abhorrent schedule being offered. According to the Mass.gov website, Fall River and New Bedford will only see 3 trains to each city during peak hours, followed by gaps of 3 to 3.5 hours between trains during off-peak hours. The low ridership projections for Phase 1 (3,220 riders) are indicative that the infrequent service will discourage ridership.

And don't even get me started on how much Phase 1 is going to mess up the rest of the Old Colony Lines. Commuters on the Middleboro, Kingston, and Greenbush lines are in for an unpleasant surprise come 2023 when the OTP of their lines gets ruined as a result of the operational nightmare being introduced with Phase 1.

The Middleborough routing is trash. If Phase 2 doesn't follow shortly after Phase 1, South Coast Rail is going to be a disaster. If they had included double tracking on the Old Colony mainline as part of the project (even if it was just doubling-up Quincy Center and JFK/UMass) it might be a different story.

 

[jklo]

Yep...I commuted from Dartmouth to Somerville for three decades. Always left a spare 30 minutes to absorb backups and other mayhem on Route 24, 128 and the X-way. WBZ's "Traffic On The Three's" was my friend. Thought nothing of going up 128 to the Pike and coming into Boston that way if I heard of something bad on one of their reports.

That's crazy. You'd think you would move closer at some point.

 

[Riverside]

This is entirely because of the abhorrent schedule being offered. According to the Mass.gov website, Fall River and New Bedford will only see 3 trains to each city during peak hours, followed by gaps of 3 to 3.5 hours between trains during off-peak hours.

So, I agree with your point overall, but there is something interesting about the schedule side of things. In the most recent DSEIR, it's explained that the proposed schedule (3 trains per peak, 3-3.5 hours off-peak) is entirely derived from the then-current Middleborough/Lakeville Commuter Rail Line schedule, with the addition of one extra trip. (See pages 2-48 and 2-55.)

Courtesy of dbperry's archive, here is what that schedule looked like at the time the DSEIR was written:

And this is today's schedule:

It's not a huge difference... but it's not nothing either. In particular, those mid-day gaps get noticeably shorter (assuming they do indeed extend every Middleboro train and do indeed alternate between FR and NB):

• 8:58-11:28: 2.5 hours
• 10:13-12:43: 2.5 hours
• 11:28-1:58: 2.5 hours
• 12:43-3:13: 2.5 hours
• 1:58-4:33: 2.5 hours

Rush hour takes a hit: the move to near-hourly departures during peak means there's one fewer train to/from Middleboro during peaks. But as mentioned above the DSEIR called for the addition of at least one more extra train, so it's possible the schedule might be modestly adjusted to accommodate one or two more extra trains.

The bottom line is that, applying the same logic to the current schedule as was used to create the original "3 trains per peak, 3-3.5 hours off-peak" number now gives us something more like "2-3 trains per peak, 2.5 hours off-peak" or "2 hours peak, 2.5 hours off-peak." Which is still dreadful, but...

So, make of that what you will.

 

[themissinglink]

The bottom line is that, applying the same logic to the current schedule as was used to create the original "3 trains per peak, 3-3.5 hours off-peak" number now gives us something more like "2-3 trains per peak, 2.5 hours off-peak" or "2 hours peak, 2.5 hours off-peak." Which is still dreadful, but...

So, make of that what you will.

Thanks for the information, I was curious as to how the new schedules would impact the proposed SCR schedule. It would be very good if the frequency of off peak trains could be increased, even if only marginally. But any frequency reduction for peak hours is definitely not good.

 

[Rover]

The biggest sell here is that a 90 minute commute to downtown cuts off 45 minutes from traveling in by car with no downtown parking fees either. That's a win for phase I. Gets even better for phase II.

 

[themissinglink]

The biggest sell here is that a 90 minute commute to downtown cuts off 45 minutes from traveling in by car with no downtown parking fees either. That's a win for phase I. Gets even better for phase II.

I agree that the travel times by rail are significantly better than by car, but the infrequent service is still going to discourage a lot of potential riders. This is especially apparent when comparing the estimated ridership between Phase 1 and Phase 2:

(source)

 

[Brattle Loop]

I agree that the travel times by rail are significantly better than by car, but the infrequent service is still going to discourage a lot of potential riders. This is especially apparent when comparing the estimated ridership between Phase 1 and Phase 2:
View attachment 22977(source)

Especially if the inherent anemic schedules and resultant subpar usability tank ridership to the point that the state kills Phase II outright, in which case FR/NB are left with mediocre service and the rest of the Old Colony is screwed too. I think a lot of us concerned about Phase I aren't so much opposed to the idea of it as to the danger that its inadequacies will cause SCR to fail outright, with collateral and completely avoidable consequences for other services as well.