Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail (South Coast Rail)

The implication that you can commute by car from NB to Boston in less than 90 minutes during rush hour is grade A horseshit. I realize the writer is trying to get cute by not explicitly stating that, but he does state that is the average commuting time by car, while leaving out that's with no traffic or road construction.

At this point SCR opponents are starting to sound like people who think you can decertify the 2020 election results. Move on people, that ship has sailed. ;)
 
Last edited:
Yep...I commuted from Dartmouth to Somerville for three decades. Always left a spare 30 minutes to absorb backups and other mayhem on Route 24, 128 and the X-way. WBZ's "Traffic On The Three's" was my friend. Thought nothing of going up 128 to the Pike and coming into Boston that way if I heard of something bad on one of their reports.
 
Rover said:
At this point SCR opponents are starting to sound like people who think you can decertify the 2020 election results. Move on people, that ship has sailed. ;)
Click to expand...

Most people who criticize the Phase 1 routing are not "opponents", they simply want the South Coast to have adequate transit, which Phase 1 will not be. Providing adequate transit to the South Coast can only be achieved by building Phase 2 after Phase 1. The Stoughton routing would provide more capacity for frequent service on the Fall River/New Bedford branches than the Old Colony routing ever could.

As someone who used to live in the New Bedford area, I personally would not use SCR Phase 1 to commute or travel to/from Boston, even if it meant having to deal with living hell on Route 24 and the Southeast Expressway. This is entirely because of the abhorrent schedule being offered. According to the Mass.gov website, Fall River and New Bedford will only see 3 trains to each city during peak hours, followed by gaps of 3 to 3.5 hours between trains during off-peak hours. The low ridership projections for Phase 1 (3,220 riders) are indicative that the infrequent service will discourage ridership.

And don't even get me started on how much Phase 1 is going to mess up the rest of the Old Colony Lines. Commuters on the Middleboro, Kingston, and Greenbush lines are in for an unpleasant surprise come 2023 when the OTP of their lines gets ruined as a result of the operational nightmare being introduced with Phase 1.

The Middleborough routing is trash. If Phase 2 doesn't follow shortly after Phase 1, South Coast Rail is going to be a disaster. If they had included double tracking on the Old Colony mainline as part of the project (even if it was just doubling-up Quincy Center and JFK/UMass) it might be a different story.
 
GP40MC said:
Yep...I commuted from Dartmouth to Somerville for three decades. Always left a spare 30 minutes to absorb backups and other mayhem on Route 24, 128 and the X-way. WBZ's "Traffic On The Three's" was my friend. Thought nothing of going up 128 to the Pike and coming into Boston that way if I heard of something bad on one of their reports.
Click to expand...

That's crazy. You'd think you would move closer at some point.
 
themissinglink said:
This is entirely because of the abhorrent schedule being offered. According to the Mass.gov website, Fall River and New Bedford will only see 3 trains to each city during peak hours, followed by gaps of 3 to 3.5 hours between trains during off-peak hours.
Click to expand...

So, I agree with your point overall, but there is something interesting about the schedule side of things. In the most recent DSEIR, it's explained that the proposed schedule (3 trains per peak, 3-3.5 hours off-peak) is entirely derived from the then-current Middleborough/Lakeville Commuter Rail Line schedule, with the addition of one extra trip. (See pages 2-48 and 2-55.)

Courtesy of dbperry's archive, here is what that schedule looked like at the time the DSEIR was written:

1648931387262.png


And this is today's schedule:

1648931436335.png


It's not a huge difference... but it's not nothing either. In particular, those mid-day gaps get noticeably shorter (assuming they do indeed extend every Middleboro train and do indeed alternate between FR and NB):
  • 8:58-11:28: 2.5 hours
  • 10:13-12:43: 2.5 hours
  • 11:28-1:58: 2.5 hours
  • 12:43-3:13: 2.5 hours
  • 1:58-4:33: 2.5 hours
Rush hour takes a hit: the move to near-hourly departures during peak means there's one fewer train to/from Middleboro during peaks. But as mentioned above the DSEIR called for the addition of at least one more extra train, so it's possible the schedule might be modestly adjusted to accommodate one or two more extra trains.

The bottom line is that, applying the same logic to the current schedule as was used to create the original "3 trains per peak, 3-3.5 hours off-peak" number now gives us something more like "2-3 trains per peak, 2.5 hours off-peak" or "2 hours peak, 2.5 hours off-peak." Which is still dreadful, but...

So, make of that what you will.
 
Riverside said:
The bottom line is that, applying the same logic to the current schedule as was used to create the original "3 trains per peak, 3-3.5 hours off-peak" number now gives us something more like "2-3 trains per peak, 2.5 hours off-peak" or "2 hours peak, 2.5 hours off-peak." Which is still dreadful, but...

So, make of that what you will.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the information, I was curious as to how the new schedules would impact the proposed SCR schedule. It would be very good if the frequency of off peak trains could be increased, even if only marginally. But any frequency reduction for peak hours is definitely not good.
 
The biggest sell here is that a 90 minute commute to downtown cuts off 45 minutes from traveling in by car with no downtown parking fees either. That's a win for phase I. Gets even better for phase II.
 
Rover said:
The biggest sell here is that a 90 minute commute to downtown cuts off 45 minutes from traveling in by car with no downtown parking fees either. That's a win for phase I. Gets even better for phase II.
Click to expand...

I agree that the travel times by rail are significantly better than by car, but the infrequent service is still going to discourage a lot of potential riders. This is especially apparent when comparing the estimated ridership between Phase 1 and Phase 2:
scr ridership.PNG
(source)
 
themissinglink said:
I agree that the travel times by rail are significantly better than by car, but the infrequent service is still going to discourage a lot of potential riders. This is especially apparent when comparing the estimated ridership between Phase 1 and Phase 2:
View attachment 22977(source)
Click to expand...

Especially if the inherent anemic schedules and resultant subpar usability tank ridership to the point that the state kills Phase II outright, in which case FR/NB are left with mediocre service and the rest of the Old Colony is screwed too. I think a lot of us concerned about Phase I aren't so much opposed to the idea of it as to the danger that its inadequacies will cause SCR to fail outright, with collateral and completely avoidable consequences for other services as well.
 
Brattle Loop said:
Especially if the inherent anemic schedules and resultant subpar usability tank ridership to the point that the state kills Phase II outright, in which case FR/NB are left with mediocre service and the rest of the Old Colony is screwed too. I think a lot of us concerned about Phase I aren't so much opposed to the idea of it as to the danger that its inadequacies will cause SCR to fail outright, with collateral and completely avoidable consequences for other services as well.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's the worst-case scenario that I really hope doesn't come to fruition. It's such a shame that there aren't any modifications to the Old Colony mainline included as part of Phase 1, even if they wouldn't be finished until after the planned start of service in late 2023. Double tracking the platforms at JFK/UMass and Quincy Center should have been part of Phase 1 (or at least should happen soon afterward) but it seems like there is absolutely no interest from the state or the MBTA to undertake such a project.
 
Brattle Loop said:
Especially if the inherent anemic schedules and resultant subpar usability tank ridership to the point that the state kills Phase II outright, in which case FR/NB are left with mediocre service and the rest of the Old Colony is screwed too. I think a lot of us concerned about Phase I aren't so much opposed to the idea of it as to the danger that its inadequacies will cause SCR to fail outright, with collateral and completely avoidable consequences for other services as well.
Click to expand...

This is my biggest concern. I would have fully supported a phased approach that had SCR running from South Station to Taunton via BBY and Stoughton with supplemental bus service between Taunton and Fall River/New Bedford as Phase I. It's been said, but Taunton is the city that benefits the most in a full build out as it's closest to Boston and will see more frequency than both Fall River and New Bedford. Taunton-Boston via Stoughton is viable standalone service that could easily be extended/built upon if demand is there (and I'm fairly certain it is). But I question the political will for going through with Phase II of the current plan if Phase I is as weak as it appears to be.
 
jklo said:
That's crazy. You'd think you would move closer at some point.
Click to expand...
To each his own I guess. Never saw myself living anywhere in the Boston metro-area, even from Bridgewater in. Too crowded, too congested.
 
Can’t seem to find it on the mbta site, nor searching through this thread: can someone direct me to a close-up map of phase 2? One where you can see where the route is going, relative to actual locations in towns?
 
You can also zoom in on google earth and follow the row on there, its still visible.
 
themissinglink said:
Yeah, that's the worst-case scenario that I really hope doesn't come to fruition. It's such a shame that there aren't any modifications to the Old Colony mainline included as part of Phase 1, even if they wouldn't be finished until after the planned start of service in late 2023. Double tracking the platforms at JFK/UMass and Quincy Center should have been part of Phase 1 (or at least should happen soon afterward) but it seems like there is absolutely no interest from the state or the MBTA to undertake such a project.
Click to expand...
Agree totally. The whole strategy seems like such a waste. Get the trains running to Taunton, which will be great and will revitalize Taunton (and Ive heard a lot of people are already moving to Taunton as an escape from Boston prices), be a success story, and then extend lines further south. It makes no sense whatsoever to do it the other way.
 
The problem with that approach is that getting to Taunton is the vast majority of the difficulty. Historically, Boston-Taunton-South Coast service either used the Dighton and Somerset (either via Braintree or via Canton Junction), or the Mansfield-Taunton line.* Both of them are now abandoned, and portions of ROW in Mansfield and Randolph are redeveloped. That leaves you four (even slightly realistic) options to get to Taunton:
  • Go via Attleboro. Either you build a new 3-mile bypass (as proposed in the 1990s), or have a reverse move at the station. Either way, you have to deal with creating NEC congestion and the Taunton grade crossings. Rather indirect route.
  • Go via Mansfield. The original ROW through downtown is redeveloped, so you'd have to build a new ROW along 140 and 495. Deals with NEC congestion (slightly less than Attleboro) and the Taunton grade crossings. Fairly direct route.
  • Go via Canton Junction and Stoughton. Reactivate the ROW through three very rail-hostile towns, and deal with a lesser amount of NEC congestion. Flat and straight ROW - the most direct route.
  • Go via Middleborough. Highly indirect route, Old Colony mainline bottleneck, requires a reverse move at Taunton to serve FR/NB, and hurts potential Cape Cod service. All active ROW, and can avoid most Taunton grade crossings depending on where you put your station.
Meanwhile, once you get to Taunton, getting to FR/NB is easy. Restore active ROW for passenger service, build stations, build layovers. They're also much bigger cities (NB #9 with 101k, FR #10 with 94k) than Taunton (#21 with 59k). So tl;dr: because of the unique circumstances of which rail lines are active, there's no scenario in which it makes sense to just build to Taunton.

* Early Boston-Fall River service ran via Middleborough and didn't serve Taunton. That routing was down to a single daily round trip by the 1920s, and ended around 1931. The ROW between Middleborough and Myricks is now obliterated. The Phase 1 alignment via Middleborough and Cotley Junction is not a routing ever used before, as there was never a complete wye at Cotley.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top