Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail (South Coast Rail)

The SCR Project Manager just yesterday weaseled out of projecting a start date, so I wouldn't expect anything earth-shattering to come out of this meeting.

Now, safety testing can occur once construction is completed. When asked about a start date, Project Manager for South Coast Rail Jean Fox said “I don’t have it at this time because the testing and commissioning is so robust. We’re going to keep targeting and pushing and pushing. It’s going to take a while. That’s what it’s all about, safety.”
Click to expand...
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
The SCR Project Manager just yesterday weaseled out of projecting a start date, so I wouldn't expect anything earth-shattering to come out of this meeting.
Click to expand...
Project Manager Jean Fox presented an update on status during the Cape Cod Chapter, NRHS banquet last June. I noted her presentation then did not include a planned opening date, so I asked during the Q&A. She said it was hoped to be late "this year" (2023), but it was dependent on PTC testing. Any defects found could lead to a delay of months, so early 2024 was more likely she said last June. Slip sliding away...
 
OldColony said:
Project Manager Jean Fox presented an update on status during the Cape Cod Chapter, NRHS banquet last June. I noted her presentation then did not include a planned opening date, so I asked during the Q&A. She said it was hoped to be late "this year" (2023), but it was dependent on PTC testing. Any defects found could lead to a delay of months, so early 2024 was more likely she said last June. Slip sliding away...
Click to expand...
According to RR.net spotters the signal heads on the New Bedford Branch weren't even turned facing the ROW until a month ago, which means the signal system wasn't operational until at most a month ago. So they definitely weren't doing live PTC testing at any point during calendar year 2023.
 
TheRatmeister said:
Have the fares really not been determined or is it just embarrassing that a monthly pass will cost more than $400 and they're looking to bury that under the more positive start of service headlines?
Click to expand...

Probably, and Zone 9 seems appropriate ($406)
 
jklo said:
Probably, and Zone 9 seems appropriate ($406)
Click to expand...
I somewhat doubt they'll lump East Taunton in with Middleboro's Zone 8 such that the branches are all-9. If they're going by distance the difference between M'Boro and E. Taunton is enough for a zone jump. So this might indeed be a prelude to the sticker shock of Zone 10 from the cities being Friday-afternoon-news-dumped sometime this summer.
 
jklo said:
Probably, and Zone 9 seems appropriate ($406)
Click to expand...
Yeah but that's still crazy expensive, even by American standards. Here's what a monthly pass for a similar or greater distance costs on various other rail systems in the US:
SystemCost
LIRR$378 (Port Jefferson to NY Penn or GC)
Metro North$366.25 (Fairfield to Grand Central, Could it really not be a round number guys?)
SEPTA Regional Rail$204 (Newark DE to Philly, A little bit shorter than Boston-Fall River but only by <10mi)
NJ Transit$310 (Atlantic City to Philly), $451 (Princeton Jct to NY Penn), $351 (Trenton to Newark)

Oh and a special shoutout to NJT for making their monthly pass fares impossible to find, good job.
METRA$135 (!!!) (Harvard to Oglevie TC)
Caltrain$238.80 (San Jose Diridion to San Francisco)
Or if I wanted to buy a pass that lets me travel anywhere in the Netherlands, on any train, at any time, for an entire month, that would cost me about $385.50. No CR pass should cost more than that. (For a size comparison, that's about MA-RI-CT all put together.)
 
TheRatmeister said:
Yeah but that's still crazy expensive, even by American standards. Here's what a monthly pass for a similar or greater distance costs on various other rail systems in the US:
SystemCost
LIRR$378 (Port Jefferson to NY Penn or GC)
Metro North$366.25 (Fairfield to Grand Central, Could it really not be a round number guys?)
SEPTA Regional Rail$204 (Newark DE to Philly, A little bit shorter than Boston-Fall River but only by <10mi)
NJ Transit$310 (Atlantic City to Philly), $451 (Princeton Jct to NY Penn), $351 (Trenton to Newark)

Oh and a special shoutout to NJT for making their monthly pass fares impossible to find, good job.
METRA$135 (!!!) (Harvard to Oglevie TC)
Caltrain$238.80 (San Jose Diridion to San Francisco)
Or if I wanted to buy a pass that lets me travel anywhere in the Netherlands, on any train, at any time, for an entire month, that would cost me about $385.50. No CR pass should cost more than that. (For a size comparison, that's about MA-RI-CT all put together.)
Click to expand...
The Old Colony zones are ripe for a redrawing. Quincy should be in 1A, not 1. Braintree should be in 1, not 2. The outbound gradations should shrink accordingly. Campello should be in the same zone as Montello and Brockton given that it's in the same municipality. There shouldn't be a 2-zone jump between Bridgewater and Middleboro given the distance. And so on.

There are a lot of lines on the system with nonsensical zone assignments because "we've always done it that way" that should be redrawn for better equity, but they never propose doing so.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
The Old Colony zones are ripe for a redrawing. Quincy should be in 1A, not 1. Braintree should be in 1, not 2. The outbound gradations should shrink accordingly. Campello should be in the same zone as Montello and Brockton given that it's in the same municipality. There shouldn't be a 2-zone jump between Bridgewater and Middleboro given the distance. And so on.

There are a lot of lines on the system with nonsensical zone assignments because "we've always done it that way" that should be redrawn for better equity, but they never propose doing so.
Click to expand...
There are so many problems with the current fare zones:
  • CR Paralleling subway service has different fares
  • Stations in Boston aren't in Zone 1A
  • There are just too many zones, making the system more complicated than it needs to be
  • Sometimes a zone is just... skipped? Sometimes it makes sense based on the distance, but sometimes it doesn't.
  • And by far the worst, traveling from Oak Grove to North Station costs $2.40, but go 1 mile further to Wyoming Hill and now the fare is $6.50. How does that make any sense?
 
TheRatmeister said:
Or if I wanted to buy a pass that lets me travel anywhere in the Netherlands, on any train, at any time, for an entire month, that would cost me about $385.50. No CR pass should cost more than that. (For a size comparison, that's about MA-RI-CT all put together.)
Click to expand...

It's truly wild. In Germany, a monthly pass valid on every bus, tram, U-Bahn, S-Bahn, and regional train in the entire country costs.... 49 euros. The only transit I can't ride on that pass are the high speed IC/ICE trains. People are always shocked when I tell them how much a monthly pass for a single city's (far inferior) transit system typically costs in the US.
 
lexicon506 said:
It's truly wild. In Germany, a monthly pass valid on every bus, tram, U-Bahn, S-Bahn, and regional train in the entire country costs.... 49 euros. The only transit I can't ride on that pass are the high speed IC/ICE trains. People are always shocked when I tell them how much a monthly pass for a single city's (far inferior) transit system typically costs in the US.
Click to expand...
The D-Ticket is amazing! If I ever want to go to Miniatur Wunderland in Hamburg or something it basically just makes sense to get the monthly pass since it's almost the same price as a return ticket.

And on a related note, the fact that Interrail works without seat reservations on the ICE trains is great and makes wandering all over Germany super fun and accessible. 10/10 would recommend.
 
You really can't compare to NY. A Metro North mostly pass does not entitle you to unlimited subway and bus like an MBTA monthly pass does
 
TheRatmeister said:
  • And by far the worst, traveling from Oak Grove to North Station costs $2.40, but go 1 mile further to Wyoming Hill and now the fare is $6.50. How does that make any sense?
Click to expand...

Makes perfect sense. If you're someone who can afford that price jump, you're someone Melrose would welcome 🙃

In all seriousness, though, while it is absolutely ridiculous how much the fare jumps from zone 1A to 1 (particularly since you can see Oak Grove from Wyoming. Actually, you can see Oak Grove from the grade crossing more than halfway to Cedar Park past Wyoming), it was slightly less ridiculous when the CR didn't actually stop at Oak Grove, just Malden.
 
Brattle Loop said:
Makes perfect sense. If you're someone who can afford that price jump, you're someone Melrose would welcome 🙃

In all seriousness, though, while it is absolutely ridiculous how much the fare jumps from zone 1A to 1 (particularly since you can see Oak Grove from Wyoming. Actually, you can see Oak Grove from the grade crossing more than halfway to Cedar Park past Wyoming), it was slightly less ridiculous when the CR didn't actually stop at Oak Grove, just Malden.
Click to expand...
The fare jump between Zones 1A and 1 is just ridiculous, full stop. A distance of at most ~5.5 miles (And that's in the already silly case of Quincy Center to JFK where there shouldn't be a zone change in the first place) should never cause fares to increase by 270%, basically no matter what. And there's actually an even more extreme case. Fairmount is in Zone 1A, while Readville is in Zone 2, resulting in an almost 3-fold increase in fares over a 1.25 mile distance.

My point is that this doesn't need to be a rich areas vs poor areas issue. In some places there is definitely some of that, but ultimately the main issue is that it's just absolutely insane, no matter who or where the system serves.
 
jklo said:
Well... you're basically talking about lowering fares. And the CR ridership tends to be richer.
Click to expand...
Or, how about, think of it this way:
  • By lowering CR fares, a greater number of people working in Boston will have more incentives to live along a CR line. This both includes the stereotypical wealthy suburbs (Melrose may fit the description depending on your POV, even though their MBTA buses see good ridership), and other denser, more urban areas that currently have to rely on the CR system, such as Lynn and Brockton (both of which have much lower per-capita income than Melrose).
  • This means demand will shift from the Boston metropolitan area itself to regions served by CR.
  • This, in turn, helps reduce real estate prices and alleviate the housing crisis in metro Boston, including - but not limited to - poorer neighborhoods such as Roxbury, Everett and East Boston.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top