Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail (South Coast Rail)

michaelw37 said:
I was going to say that a comparison of East-West and SCR is not really warranted in that there is no way to handicap East-West by sending it on a roundabout route like SCR Phase I. There is one route to Springfield: the MBTA Worcester Line to its namesake city and then CSX's Boston Subdivision to Springfield. However, I just checked the Lake Shore Limited timetable and it's about 2.5 hours from South Station to Springfield Union Station. Drive time is a mere 1.5 hours. Even assuming traffic bumps that number up, I doubt it would be consistently bad enough to close a one-hour gap very often. Unless the East-West upgrades produce substantial timesavings, I am a little worried that it could indeed be a let-down that saps will for more rail upgrades in the state.
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The current grant should shrink BOS-SPG travel times down to about 2:05 by uprating the track speed. On a Friday afternoon that's par or slightly better than the increasingly horrible car commute.
 
jklo said:
There is no room for it on the Worcester Line without hurting existing service. At 2019 service levels, they were pushing 4 tph already. Not sure if you can do more, esp given the line's reputation of being so late.

I believe the LSL (and cargo runs) runs outside of realistic commuting patterns.
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So we should just accept MBTA "slop ops"? That lines capacity should be at least 8tph
 
michaelw37 said:
I was going to say that a comparison of East-West and SCR is not really warranted in that there is no way to handicap East-West by sending it on a roundabout route like SCR Phase I. There is one route to Springfield: the MBTA Worcester Line to its namesake city and then CSX's Boston Subdivision to Springfield. However, I just checked the Lake Shore Limited timetable and it's about 2.5 hours from South Station to Springfield Union Station. Drive time is a mere 1.5 hours. Even assuming traffic bumps that number up, I doubt it would be consistently bad enough to close a one-hour gap very often. Unless the East-West upgrades produce substantial timesavings, I am a little worried that it could indeed be a let-down that saps will for more rail upgrades in the state.
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Transitmatters suggests that 90 min service would be feasible with RR, and people are forgetting that Springfield service could also serve as part of Worcester frequency upgrades
 
michaelw37 said:
I was going to say that a comparison of East-West and SCR is not really warranted in that there is no way to handicap East-West by sending it on a roundabout route like SCR Phase I. There is one route to Springfield: the MBTA Worcester Line to its namesake city and then CSX's Boston Subdivision to Springfield. However, I just checked the Lake Shore Limited timetable and it's about 2.5 hours from South Station to Springfield Union Station. Drive time is a mere 1.5 hours. Even assuming traffic bumps that number up, I doubt it would be consistently bad enough to close a one-hour gap very often. Unless the East-West upgrades produce substantial timesavings, I am a little worried that it could indeed be a let-down that saps will for more rail upgrades in the state.
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I can think of several ways to unnecessarily lengthen Springfield service;)
 
Tallguy said:
So we should just accept MBTA "slop ops"? That lines capacity should be at least 8tph
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I guess. That's every 7.5 minutes. That seems unrealistic that Keolis could keep schedule even if allowed to have trains that close.
 
Tallguy said:
They do in Europe.
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Trains from Schiphol to Amsterdam Zuid/Lelylaan and back, often arrive and depart in 5 minute intervals or even less, as far as I'm aware. That is metro level frequencies on the mainline rail network of the Netherlands. Even during off peak weekend hours, Dutch trains still arrive and depart in 10 minute frequencies or better between Schiphol and Amsterdam; which is signficantly better than the metro/subway/rapid transit of the MBTA Red Line, even during peak hours, in Boston (Red line trains arrive every 18 - 22 minutes, every 18 min peak rush hour periods).

There are also intercity trains every 10 - 15 minutes from Amsterdam to Eindhoven on weekdays as well, which share tracks with local sprinter stop trains, so there are always trains arriving every 10 minutes or better, so quite a bit of a lot of train traffic on mainline conventional rail. The proposal now is by 2025 to run sprinters every 5 minutes between The Hague and Rotterdam, on top of intercity services.

I'm still amazed by how much European and Dutch rail service there is compared to MBTA Commuter Rail, and South Coast Rail is getting alternating 3.5 hour frequencies, maybe every 2 - 2.5 hours during rush hour. One city, say New Bedford could get an 8:35 time slot to arrive at Boston MA South Station, and Fall River would have to contend with either a 7:20 arrival or a 9:50 arrival.
 
jklo said:
Must have more than 2 tracks then.
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In the Netherlands example above there is some quad track in the very core of the network, but most of the high frequency is done on dual track only. Extensive use of preventative maintenance (no dead trains on the tracks), lots of track and train sensors, and big data based analytics to continuously monitor performance and prevent even minor delays (which tend to cascade). 92% on-time performance (within 3 minutes). Simultaneous arrival/departure, cross-platform transfers between lines, are a common feature.

It is basically about wanting to make the trains run on time, then using readily available tools and technology to do it.
 
Tallguy said:
No. There are numerous lines that run 15 min service on single track
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If you are going one way, sure. But you need trains to be able to go back. I was under the impression that the FRA is strict about flipping the switch to switch tracks. Like the pushback on the Newton stops.
 
jklo said:
If you are going one way, sure. But you need trains to be able to go back. I was under the impression that the FRA is strict about flipping the switch to switch tracks. Like the pushback on the Newton stops.
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What??? There's no rule against using crossovers for meets/overtakes, no FRA frowny-face. It's done all day every day across the country. And it's completely, totally safe with the signal system they have.

And what pushback on the Newton stops? They clog up traffic as single-side platforms, and the T got blasted for trying to design the replacement Auburndale as yet another single-side platform (on the *worse* side for traffic management, no less). It wasn't some arcane rule or federal oversight that upended those plans; it was the T presenting a transparently rock-stupid design and getting called out on it by the public.

The Worcester Line needs a higher-density signal system and more sets of crossovers to mix bi-directional :15 local service with express overtakes, but it can indeed be done on 2 tracks so long as the stations all have 2-track platforms. The T's own in-house Rail Vision explicitly proposes exactly that here.
 
JeffDowntown said:
In the Netherlands example above there is some quad track in the very core of the network, but most of the high frequency is done on dual track only. Extensive use of preventative maintenance (no dead trains on the tracks), lots of track and train sensors, and big data based analytics to continuously monitor performance and prevent even minor delays (which tend to cascade). 92% on-time performance (within 3 minutes). Simultaneous arrival/departure, cross-platform transfers between lines, are a common feature.

It is basically about wanting to make the trains run on time, then using readily available tools and technology to do it.
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Yep. Even in the core of Amsterdam, there are only dual tracks to reach Amsterdam Centraal from Schiphol, one per each direction, for a decent large strech from halfway from Schiphol to Amsterdam, until almost to Amsterdam Centraal. Most of the quad tracks run either from Haarlem -> Amsterdam CS, or Schiphol -> Amsterdam Zuid; primarily for access to the rest of the country. The section of track from Amsterdam Centraal to Amsterdam Bijlmer is also only dual track, one per direction. Both of these dual track corridors run high frequency service of 6 minute intervals or better for combined sprinter and intercity train services during peak periods (Amsterdam CS -> Eindhoven; Amsterdam CS -> Schiphol).

Also, timetables are clockface scheduling in the Netherlands. The MBTA Commuter Rail isn't even consistent with it's clockface scheduling. Evening MBTA CR trips are whenever and irregular 2.55 hour intervals and hard to memorize. Daytime MBTA CR trips shift completely during rush hour so the departure times past the hour shift outright between midday and rush hours. Here's the Middleborough Line schedule: https://cdn.mbta.com/sites/default/...-02-cr-fall-winter-middleborough-line.pdf.pdf
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
The current grant should shrink BOS-SPG travel times down to about 2:05 by uprating the track speed. On a Friday afternoon that's par or slightly better than the increasingly horrible car commute.
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Heck, at this point that's within typical range for the AM eastbound commute four days per week (M-Th), PM westbound commute five days per week (M-F), and PM eastbound ("reverse") commute four days per week (Tu-F). If you plug in driving directions for Springfield Union to South Station, departing at 6:15 am on Tuesday, Google says "typically 1 hr 50 min to 3 hr 20 min." Yikes!
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
What??? There's no rule against using crossovers for meets/overtakes, no FRA frowny-face. It's done all day every day across the country. And it's completely, totally safe with the signal system they have.
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But it's a time killer.
 
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