General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

cubbe8 said:
There is 33 million in the new CIP for countdown clocks upgrades. Does this mean that we will get lcd screen countdown clocks?
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No details right now, but I'd advise patience. It is currently described as "a project to complete 100% systemwide PS&E for MBTA’s PADIS (Public Address and Digital Info System) toward the replacement of all 500+ overhead orange dot-matrix LED screens in 96 stations, plus accompanying PA audio," which is scheduled for advertisement this month.

PS&E, in contracting parlance, stands for Plans, Specifications, & Estimates, and basically equivalent to proceeding to n% design. In this specific case, you should read that as funded for 100% design.
 
Stlin said:
No details right now, but I'd advise patience. It is currently described as "a project to complete 100% systemwide PS&E for MBTA’s PADIS (Public Address and Digital Info System) toward the replacement of all 500+ overhead orange dot-matrix LED screens in 96 stations, plus accompanying PA audio," which is scheduled for advertisement this month.

PS&E, in contracting parlance, stands for "Plans, Specifications, & Estimates, and basically equivalent to proceeding to n% design. In this specific case, you should read that as funded for 100% design.
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It doesn’t cost 33 million to design that. That is the professional service contract.
 
cubbe8 said:
It doesn’t cost 33 million to design that. That is the professional service contract.
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Correct, but what I was trying to say is that it'll take a while, and we have no clue if that design includes LCD screens - the design doesn't exist yet, and the T is some distance away from actually installing anything; Design-bid-build just takes time.
 
cubbe8 said:
In the CIP meeting yesterday, it was mentioned that the total cost estimated for Newburyport electrification is over 800 million.
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At about $15m per mile that's not completely unreasonable at least. Still more than double the NEC electrification costs though. Also, I would argue this is a good, arguably textbook place to do battery electrification, stringing catenary up to Beverly then running on battery to the branches. That would cut down the actual catenary costs by around two-thirds. At least then the higher cost per mile doesn't matter as much. (Although obviously rolling stock costs would increase somewhat.)
 
TheRatmeister said:
At about $15m per mile that's not completely unreasonable at least. Still more than double the NEC electrification costs though. Also, I would argue this is a good, arguably textbook place to do battery electrification, stringing catenary up to Beverly then running on battery to the branches. That would cut down the actual catenary costs by around two-thirds. At least then the higher cost per mile doesn't matter as much. (Although obviously rolling stock costs would increase somewhat.)
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If the goal is :30 service on the branches, that's plenty much TPH to amortize the electrification costs. A substation nearish to the junction is enough to power both branches end-to-end, so you'd only need 2 subs (an inner one to power the terminal district and inside-128, and an outer one to cover Beverly-north). They were going to have to build multiple subs anyway under the BEMU plan because of the Revere-Somerville wires gap, so those costs are almost exactly the same. The rest is the tradeoff for more one-time OCS capital cost vs. less every-time vehicle procurement cost. I don't think the discrepancy ends up a large enough sum to not go for it.

Cross-fingers, if this is true and the electrification is planned to be continuous, you can finally start to evaluate stuff like Reading turns and Waltham turns being easy-reach prospects chained to the same terminal district substation. Kneecapping those two possibilities with discontinuous electrification was the most asinine shortfall of the Rockburyport BEMU plan.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
If the goal is :30 service on the branches, that's plenty much TPH to amortize the electrification costs
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It depends on the rolling stock costs, but it's actually probably not. Removing the cost of charging stations and the need to have trains wait at terminals for charging makes a huge impact for costs. Using that $15m per mile number, and assuming a future where we want 15 minute service on both branches, even with absurd Caltrain BEMU costs BEMUs work out cheaper at a distance of 11 miles. Both branches are longer than that, at around 17-18 miles. If we want to evaluate a future where there's continued service to Portsmouth or even Maine, yeah full electrification to Newburyport and beyond would probably make sense. But in terms of remotely possible transit projects, I'd rank that pretty far down the list.
 
Screenshot 2025-04-05 at 01.05.39.png

For those curious, here is the formula you can use for calculating the minimum distance BEMUs are viable. It's not perfect but it generally takes into account the main factors driving BEMU costs. No I'm not very good at choosing letters and it's confusing, apologies.
 

Republican Amendment Shifts Spending Bill Money From MBTA To Local Roads | WBZ NewsRadio 1030

The amendment would allocate $50 million to help communities work on their roadways. For more stories like this, ask Alexa to play WBZ NewsRadio on #iHeartRadio.
wbznewsradio.iheart.com
More than a dozen GOP representatives signed onto an amendment to the surtax supplemental budget (H 4005) that would reduce a one-time injection to the T by $50 million, and redirect that amount toward the Chapter 90 program.

The amendment (#10) filed by Rep. Joseph McKenna of Sutton specifies that the extra Chapter 90 funding would be distributed "using a formula based on each municipality's share of road mileage," which could steer more of it toward rural communities with longer stretches of roadway.

Some western Massachusetts lawmakers voiced frustration last week that the vast majority of transportation funding in Gov. Maura Healey's version of the bill would go to the T, a dynamic that House Democrats kept in their redraft.
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themissinglink said:

Republican Amendment Shifts Spending Bill Money From MBTA To Local Roads | WBZ NewsRadio 1030

The amendment would allocate $50 million to help communities work on their roadways. For more stories like this, ask Alexa to play WBZ NewsRadio on #iHeartRadio.
wbznewsradio.iheart.com
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Plus the tariffs tonight as well. Should we worried about the MBTA going broke for FY26 and then have more service cuts?

There's still a budget shortfall even before they factored in the whole tariff fiasco (and it hasn't been factored in yet still IRRC).

Plus the revenue from the sales tax for the MBTA, if it underperforms because of the tariffs. Oh no.
 
KCasiglio said:
I do not believe anything has been published yet, but from what I've been told the T is being directed by the feds to govern all green line trains to 25mph across the extent of the line.
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Circling back on this, as I understand it, it is on the table and being negotiated on whether some small safety improvements would suffice to not require this. At present the T is working on two potential summer schedules, one in which this is in place and one in which it is not.
 
themissinglink said:

Republican Amendment Shifts Spending Bill Money From MBTA To Local Roads | WBZ NewsRadio 1030

The amendment would allocate $50 million to help communities work on their roadways. For more stories like this, ask Alexa to play WBZ NewsRadio on #iHeartRadio.
wbznewsradio.iheart.com
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I really just don’t get these politicians from podunk towns complaining about all the money going to the T. Don’t they understand that 99% of the money they get from the state for everything in their tiny town budgets comes from the economic engine that is Boston? Like fuck off, towns.
 
FK4 said:
I really just don’t get these politicians from podunk towns complaining about all the money going to the T. Don’t they understand that 99% of the money they get from the state for everything in their tiny town budgets comes from the economic engine that is Boston? Like fuck off, towns.
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Specific to chapter 90, I kinda get it - small towns are fairly reliant on that money to complete ever more expensive local road works, one of the most visible things a town DPW ever does. It historically has been annually level funded at 200M statewide since 2012. In 2025, it just doesn't go as far as it used to.

That said, that's why the Governors filed a 5 year bond bill to bump that to 300M, with the extra amount apportioned by road miles and not population - so an extra 50M this year is just a grab which failed - 25 to 129. However, the House did write in some 28M in local transportation (mostly for a 25M parking garage in DT Quincy) and 46M in education earmarks and pass that instead - to be determined if such survive the Senate and in what form.
 
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FK4 said:
I really just don’t get these politicians from podunk towns complaining about all the money going to the T. Don’t they understand that 99% of the money they get from the state for everything in their tiny town budgets comes from the economic engine that is Boston? Like fuck off, towns.
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The politicians likely know, but they count on the ignorance of their uninformed constituents to allow them to take the easy route of blaming their problems on liberal, coastal elites, who were born elsewhere. It can be an effective technique if your goal is simply to be re-elected.
 

Some MBTA escalators have been down for years, testing patience of riders - The Boston Globe

While certain issues can be fixed within a day, others that require major work or new parts can take far longer.
www.bostonglobe.com
Across the transit system, 13 of 177 escalators were down last week, according to accessibility alerts posted by the T. Reasons ranged from “pending replacement” to “undergoing maintenance.”
One unit at Courthouse Station has been closed for eight years, the longest current closure. That and a second escalator there are down because of ongoing construction at the station. Four escalators around the system have been down since 2023, and two others since 2022, according to data provided by the agency Several have been out of service for months.
[...]
In total, 92 escalators, about 52 percent across the system, have surpassed their useful life span of 28 years.
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Oh, they are the lucky ones in comparison. Milton Station has no escalator and has had its stairs condemned. You have to walk through a vacant lot, and if you get on the trolley, you might need to be rescued by boat. They say there is a plan to fix it but when asked why it is not happening as planned the T goes into full doublespeak.
 
Scott said:
Oh, they are the lucky ones in comparison. Milton Station has no escalator and has had its stairs condemned. You have to walk through a vacant lot, and if you get on the trolley, you might need to be rescued by boat. They say there is a plan to fix it but when asked why it is not happening as planned the T goes into full doublespeak.
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Let's not forget about the trolley overhaul project either, that pops up every few years to be reminded it is what - almost a decade behind schedule at this point?
 
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