Massachusetts State Flag (we need a better state flag)

[stick n move]

As far as whats just the best overall as a stand alone flag design of the 3 I think the mayflower flag is obvious imo. If we cant have that though then why is it even one of the options?

Between the other 2 I think the red is better, but its not great. The 3rd one is absolutely horrible though. Its fine as a drawing, but just a really bad flag design.

Why is the mass bay colony flag not an option? Its the new england flag without the pine tree. It at least has history attached to it, plus the design and color already associated with the region.

So the 3 options they came to are a flag that cant be used, the red one, and whatever the hell that third one is. They really fucked this huh? I had a sliver of hope this wouldnt be a shit show… but damn. Just keep the flag we have at this point… None of these are good enough to even waste the time on. Come back to it later when we can be serious.

 

[Equilibria]

As far as whats just the best overall as a stand alone flag design of the 3 I think the mayflower flag is obvious imo. If we cant have that though then why is it even one of the options?

Between the other 2 I think the red is better, but its not great. The 3rd one is absolutely horrible though. Its fine as a drawing, but just a really bad flag design.

Why is the mass bay colony flag not an option? Its the new england flag without the pine tree. It at least has history attached to it, plus the design and color already associated with the region.

So the 3 options they came to are a flag that cant be used, the red one, and whatever the hell that third one is. They really fucked this huh? I had a sliver of hope this wouldnt be a shit show… but damn. Just keep the flag we have at this point… None of these are good enough to even waste the time on. Come back to it later when we can be serious.

They can't keep the one we have for the same reason they can't use the Mass Bay Colony flag. The whole point is to not use genocidal imagery.

What seems to be happening here is that the whole panel voted on a huge number of submissions and these were the top three, but individual members of the panel weren't happy and voiced that to the media after the meeting. Bear in mind that this panel isn't meeting very many times at all - they've had only a couple of hours to work through thousands of ideas.

Regardless, this is always how these processes seem to go. They announce the effort and a bunch of people say "keep the one we have." They release finalists and a few more people say "all of these suck - keep the one we have." Then they release the final one and a bunch more people say "why are we wasting our time with this? I don't like this. Keep the one we have." And a bunch of really bad flags survive in the end.

 

[HenryAlan]

I like the "Peace with Liberty" seal, and the third flag, with the nod to the ocean's role in our history and economy.

 

[stick n move]

I dont think the mayflower flag should be dismissed outright so fast. I get it as far as reference to the ship and the colonial history, but the mayflower as in the flower itself is flower historically found throughout new england and is the state flower. I dont think it has to represent the ship. Its not an image of the ship or a pilgrim on the flag, its the state flower. Maybe I’m just naïve..

 

[Equilibria]

I dont think the mayflower flag should be dismissed outright so fast. I get it as far as reference to the ship and the colonial history, but the mayflower as in the flower itself is flower historically found throughout new england and is the state flower. I dont think it has to represent the ship. Its not an image of the ship or a pilgrim on the flag, its the state flower. Maybe I’m just naïve..

I hear you, and that is more or less what the designer said... https://www.mass.gov/info-details/seal-flag-and-motto-round-three-selections#seal-submissions

But the indigenous members of the Committee told the Globe they didn't want it. I feel like their opinion is pretty decisive.

FWIW, here's the discussion on r/vexillology:

https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/1n2ol7s/the_three_finalists_for_the_massachusetts_flag

The two most common opinions seem to be "these all suck, where's the tree, use a Revolution-era battle flag" and "is it okay if I like the red one?"

 

[stick n move]

Nobody has shown the new massachusetts state flag proposals rendered as real flags, so I asked chatgpt to make some examples. Gives a better idea of what theyd actually look like in every day life.

Crimson with turkey feathers proposal MA state flag.

Mayflower proposal MA state flag.

Blue hill banner MA state flag proposal

As a bonus I added my favorite option which wasnt selected, but imo is an instantly recognizable, instantly iconic, and unique flag with a direct historical link.

The sons of liberty MA state flag proposal

 

[MrDee12345]

Nobody had made a version of the flag options showing what theyd look like as real flags so I asked chatgpt to make some examples. Gives a better idea of what theyd actually look like in every day life.

View attachment 74932

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As a bonus I added in the sons of liberty flag concept because thats my favorite option and its just an awesome and unique flag.

View attachment 74935

I think the top one is a bit less red and more maroon. It used to be my favorite of the three, but I think I like the third one now, even though it screams "Uruguay!" at me every time I see it.

I just wish they would decide, for crying out loud. How much more time do they need?

 

[BronsonShore]

It's going to be the feathers and it is immediately going to become wildly popular. You will see that motif on totebags and laptop stickers all over the city.

 

[RandomWalk]

I like the feathers. The flower looks too much like Mississippi.

 

[HenryAlan]

I'm a fan of number 3, which really evokes the state's relationship with the ocean.

 

[lexicon506]

It's going to be the feathers and it is immediately going to become wildly popular. You will see that motif on totebags and laptop stickers all over the city.

Exactly. These days a state flag is mostly a marketing tool, and having a simple, easily replicable, and recognizable motif is the most important goal. People may initially laugh at a circle of turkey feathers, but it's branding and merchandise gold.

 

[stick n move]

I honestly think the mayflower would be even more marketable and is instantly recognizable with massachusetts. I think a blue background with white flower would fit very easily on even more stuff. The crimson flag would probably be easier if it was just 1 feather imo.

 

[JumboBuc]

If MA had a good flag I would legitimately fly it on the flag pole on my front porch. I am proud to be American, but I feel like my pride of being from MA -- and from New England -- is something I would display more openly.

Blue and yellow to me are the clearly identifiable as the "unoffical" colors of Massachusetts -- and of Boston -- despite what some schoolchildren decided during the Romney Administration. But the Pine tree canton and vertical red and white stripes is a banger.

Feathers over red reads Oklahoma to me. The yellow star with blue and white stripes reads Uruguay.

I'd also absolutely adore a common vernacular across all New England states -- as is very common with neighboring countries with similar cultures / histories -- and the green & blue / pine tree canton could be that.

Gun to my head I'd go with:

VT: Green Mountain boys flag (come on Noah Kahan - bring this back into the mainstream):

NH (via Reddit):

ME: absolute no brainer

MA:

RI: Current one is good enough

CT: Don't care.

 

[Justbuildit]

Truly no clearer evidence of being from MA than not caring, at all, about CT.

I'd love the tree or the turkey feathers. I think the deep red is really appealing and different from boring white backgrounds.

 

[stick n move]

If MA had a good flag I would legitimately fly it on the flag pole on my front porch. I am proud to be American, but I feel like my pride of being from MA -- and from New England -- is something I would display more openly.

Blue and yellow to me are the clearly identifiable as the "unoffical" colors of Massachusetts -- and of Boston -- despite what some schoolchildren decided during the Romney Administration. But the Pine tree canton and vertical red and white stripes is a banger.

Feathers over red reads Oklahoma to me. The yellow star with blue and white stripes reads Uruguay.

I'd also absolutely adore a common vernacular across all New England states -- as is very common with neighboring countries with similar cultures / histories -- and the green & blue / pine tree canton could be that.

Gun to my head I'd go with:

VT: Green Mountain boys flag (come on Noah Kahan - bring this back into the mainstream):

NH (via Reddit):

ME: absolute no brainer

MA:

RI: Current one is good enough

CT: Don't care.

You could fly the new england flag! I wish I saw more around, theyre pretty rare unfortunately. One of the better flags imo. Thats the flag in my avatar and I also have a sticker on my car.

 

[RandomWalk]

I hate how the more historic flags have been appropriated by the more regressive parts of society.

 

[BronsonShore]

You could fly the new england flag! I wish I saw more around, theyre pretty rare unfortunately. One of the better flags imo. Thats the flag in my avatar and I also have a sticker on my car.

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You certainly see it more and more these days. It's all over Charlestown, it makes appearances at Pats games, and the Revs have really incorporated it into their match day experience and branding. I would LOVE for this to become a ubiquitous visual fixture throughout the region.

 

[Bananarama]

The feathers are far too detailed and need a redraw.
I don't think most people know what a mayflower actually looks like to make the association (would've been better related to an actual boat motif). Agreed, Mississippi does it better already.
That sons of liberty concept and the NE flag are great.

 

[KCasiglio]

CT: Don't care.

Grew up in southwest CT and fully identify with New England

 

[bigpicture7]

You certainly see it more and more these days. It's all over Charlestown...

National Parks Service has a page about this:

Flags of Bunker Hill: Banners of Liberty (U.S. National Park Service)

Flags of Bunker Hill: Banners of Liberty

www.nps.gov

There are Bunker Hill flag variants, as well as the New England variant (@stick n move posted above), that are similar

Sometime after the Battle of Bunker Hill, Americans began to recall stories about four flags relating to the battle. The Provincial militia likely flew two of these flags during the battle. The other two flags appeared during the Siege of Boston, the larger conflict that began with the Battle of Bunker Hill. In-person accounts about these flags are contradictory, but there is agreement among some historians that Provincials flew these four flags either during the battle or in the days that followed.