đź”· Open Thread

For a while in the 90s, it was supposed to be a comeback city like Pittsburgh. What happened (or didn't happen) ?
 
Well the big events of the '90s that I know of (which really isn't much) were things like bringing the Browns back, moving the Indians and Cavaliers downtown, opening the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame and the ground-up success of the Flats nightlife district. All of those gave off the impression of a shiny newborn city, but the underlying economics of Cleveland and the Rustbelt never really changed.

What I do know based on firsthand observations is that much of the city proper looks like it hasn't seen a paint job since 1950.
 
Detroit's downtown is more interesting if you ask me, but on the whole yes Cleveland is better off.

Oh, and I love "we see the sun almost three times a year". So maddeningly true.
 
It does have the cultural legacy of a much larger and more important place, with its art museum and symphony orchestra.
 
kz1000ps said:
Well the big events of the '90s that I know of (which really isn't much) were things like bringing the Browns back, moving the Indians and Cavaliers downtown, opening the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame and the ground-up success of the Flats nightlife district. All of those gave off the impression of a shiny newborn city, but the underlying economics of Cleveland and the Rustbelt never really changed.

What I do know based on firsthand observations is that much of the city proper looks like it hasn't seen a paint job since 1950.
Click to expand...

Go to Buffalo. Seriously. You will feel better about Cleveland.

Buffalo wonders why Cleveland is "prospering" and it isn't. I am really not kidding about this.
 
czsz, what else do you know about this comparison? I put the two on equal footing--that is, about a step or two above Detroit--but I haven't been following Buffalo's path lately and haven't set foot there in three years.
 
Any one got any info on good places to check out in Charleston SC. Whether historical, cultural, musical, or food?
 
GW2500 said:
Any one got any info on good places to check out in Charleston SC. Whether historical, cultural, musical, or food?
Click to expand...

I only spent a few days in the city proper, but King Street seems to be the main drag and is lined with an unholy amount of shops, gallerys and resturants. The best part is from Marion Square south, where it gets super skinny (maybe 25' wide?) Its like Newbury St on acid.

Market st has a quincy market-esque open market that is kind of cool, although it was more of a crafts fair then anything when I went, I'm not sure if the vendors rotate or not.

Most of the restaurants I went to were along East Bay St between market and broad. I went to Pearlz twice (despite the stupid name), as they had a legit raw bar and strong cocktails.

I also had a great time out at the Charleston Pour House out on the Maybank Highway outside of the city proper. Its a live-music dive with an amazing back patio with another stage and bar. If your staying in the city it might not be worth the drive, my friend I was staying with lived on Johns island so it was on the way.

Defiantly go out to Fort Sumter. The actual museum is in a circa WWII bunker, which is surrounded by a partially intact brick fort complete with cannons. Really cool.

The rest of the historical attractions I went to were rather lackluster, IMO. I would especially recommend against the Provost Dungeon and Exchange, as they took a legitimate historical site and turned it into some Pirates of the Caribbean bastard child. I'm serious, the first part of the tour is spent talking about what church the historical family's went to, and then the majority is spent looking at animatronic pirates in the basement that was designed and used as a warehouse for most of its time, and only housed prisoners under british control during the revolution, whom likely none were pirates.

All and all though its a really nice, dense city which makes it great to walk around and explore. I would suggest doing just that.
 
^^ Thanks, I live here now so I'll probably check out all that. Already saw some stuff, but not everything. Much appreciated.
 
kz1000ps said:
czsz, what else do you know about this comparison? I put the two on equal footing--that is, about a step or two above Detroit--but I haven't been following Buffalo's path lately and haven't set foot there in three years.
Click to expand...

I'm originally from Buffalo and go back at least once a year. I drove around the city a bit this year and the level of decline from what I remember even a few years back is stunning. Unlike Cleveland, there is absolutely zero life downtown - you could fire weapons down streets and never hit pedestrians. The city's east side is in various states of collapse.

The wealthier parts of the city still look relatively okay and I think it's still a step above Detroit, but I look at photos of streets in downtown Cleveland that are actually functional urban spaces and the people in Buffalo who are envying Cleveland start to sound like they have a point.
 
KZ - east or west side? Ohio City and a few places off detroit ave aren't that bad...but the doom and gloom...ugh
 
Hutchison, I stay in Shaker Heights and work on the east side on 36th but do frequent Ohio City and Tremont for food almost every day. And yes, all I see here is GREY, which will make my least favorite month even more shitastic.

czsz said:
I'm originally from Buffalo and go back at least once a year. I drove around the city a bit this year and the level of decline from what I remember even a few years back is stunning. Unlike Cleveland, there is absolutely zero life downtown - you could fire weapons down streets and never hit pedestrians. The city's east side is in various states of collapse.

The wealthier parts of the city still look relatively okay and I think it's still a step above Detroit, but I look at photos of streets in downtown Cleveland that are actually functional urban spaces and the people in Buffalo who are envying Cleveland start to sound like they have a point.
Click to expand...

That's disappointing to hear about Buffalo's downturn. Any idea what's causing this? Crime uptick? Lack of state/federal help? I do know how the University Heights neighborhood has seen crime increase to the point that most UB students are living elsewhere now whereas in my day (10-12 years ago) that was frat central and THE place to party.

And I guess I'd have to begrudgingly agree that Cleveland has some life in a few spots. Euclid Ave through downtown has great urban ambience and an active nightlife and restaurant culture, and same for West 6th Street, although that area is hurt by massive parking lots splitting the restaurants up into little pockets of vibrancy. I'll also add that Cleveland's food scene has gotten markedly better in the 4 years I've been working out here, and supposedly the creative class aka hipsters have started to take over and stabilize some otherwise rickety neighborhoods although I haven't seen much firsthand evidence of this.
 
I've heard rumblings about crime increasing in Buffalo, but it strikes me as being more empty than severely dangerous. There's very little investment in the area, period, and I think fatigue from previous projects that didn't do much help (building the light rail line, building a replacement hockey arena) prevents there from being more. Everyone agrees that building the second UB campus out in suburbia rather than downtown was a fatal mistake from which Buffalo may never recover.

I don't generally subscribe to the Bilbao Effect, but I think the fact that Cleveland and Milwaukee built new museums a decade or so ago catalyzed some kind of creative class buzz that allowed them to at least give off the impression of being more stylish and lively places to move to than Buffalo, which is why they've managed to attract some new residents and revitalize ever so slightly more. The Bilbao Effect is a flawed strategy, but it's at least a strategy, whereas Buffalo had none.
 
Yeah, Cleveland did have a fortunate confluence of events where in a matter of eight years it had three major sports venues and a flashy museum open, all of which were highlighted in the theme song of a popular TV show featuring some pudgy guy with coke bottle glasses. Alas, that '90s sheen is pretty much nonexistent today.

Back to UB for a sec, I read an article on Buffalo Rising last year where the comments section became a referendum on the decision to locate the new campus in the suburbs, and the surprising thing was that there were lots of people arguing that putting a campus downtown and on the waterfront would have been a bad thing in the long run. I wish I could find it now, it's worth reading again...
 
I finished 111 Huntington in Minecraft. The setbacks and crown were... annoying, but I think I did alright. The crown especially is a bit messy, but it gets the job done.

111_sunrise.jpg


111_on_high.jpg


111crown.jpg


And what I have so far, together. 101 Huntington next!
togehter.jpg


skylinehehe.jpg
 
Last edited:
LOL. You made that? WTF did you do that for? Looks like something out of an 80's Atari game.
 
kmp1284 said:
LOL. You made that? WTF did you do that for? Looks like something out of an 80's Atari game.
Click to expand...

Minecraft's a relatively popular and recent sandbox sort of game. Looks and plays simple, but it continuously generates a random world to survive and/or create in, and creating replicas of real-life objects is fairly easy.

As for why, it doesn't take too long, and it helps me feel a bit closer to the city I live in and love. I've learned more about the Prudential Center from researching for this than anywhere else, and I'm sure this'll continue to be true as I develop the rest of the city. Why not, actually?

Thanks, datadyne! 111 is my favorite building in the city along with 99 High Street.
 
kmp1284 said:
Looks like something out of an 80's Atari game.
Click to expand...

Don't knock old-school graphics. The amount of money it takes to build anything near realistic is the reason development costs have gone up so greatly in games recently. The amount of money it takes to have animators and artists design realistic environments can detract money from actual gameplay elements.

IMO, RCT 1&2 are both vastly superior to RCT3, despite a substantial graphics boost and full 3D vs isometric views. Same with the railroad tycoon series. The Sims games have also rocked back and fourth on this, sometimes hitting a winner, other times destroying a series completely. Another side effect of increased development costs: if you spend as much to make a game as a movie and it flops, an attempt to try again isnt likely.

The near-complete absence of platformers from the market is also part of this trend.

For strategy games gameplay is almost always vastly superior in importance to graphics. Not as true for FPS's. I don't play driving or sports games but I imagine graphics take a greater roll there too.

If you're interested in the topic, an article on Procedural Generation (the method minecraft uses to create unique worlds) explains it better than I.




RE: Buffalo

I've been there twice, and the amazing collection of art deco architecture is outstanding. It is equaled only by the impressive lack of human beings occupying the city. Our financial district looks hopping off-hours compared to downtown Buffalo. Think the start of any apocalypse movie. Nothing. I didn't even see bums. In fact the only place I did come within 50 feet of someone was at the Buffalo Central Terminal, where there were a few other rail/history buffs photographing it.

Side Note: The BCT is one of my favorite preservation stories. Unlike its brother in Detroit, a non-profit has actually been able to stabilize it to an extent and find programming to continue raising funds. http://buffalocentralterminal.org/
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top