🔷 Open Thread

[JumboBuc]

From the Globe:

Airlines are allowed to sell more tickets than there are seats on the plane, and they routinely overbook flights because some people do not show up.

It’s not unusual for airlines to offer travel vouchers to encourage people to give up their seats, and there are no rules for the process. When an airline demands that a passenger give up a seat, the airline is required to pay compensation of double the passenger’s one-way fare, up to $675, if the passenger can be placed on another flight that arrives one to two hours later than the first flight, or four times the ticket price, up to $1,350, for longer delays.

When they bump passengers, airlines are required to give those passengers a written description of their compensation rights.

Simply pushing the required compensation up a bit (say to 5x or 6x instead of 4x) and increasing the maximum would avoid these situations.

 

[TheRifleman]

Nope. Not at all true because this is currently how it works. There's always a chance you'll get bumped (not just due to overbooking). Having it in writing is just making it clearer to passengers. To be clear, anyone bumped is entitled to compensation from the airline. They also always seek volunteers first.

Let me rephrase that the entire shitty airline industry has gone through cycles of bankruptcy anyway. Between mismanagement, airline pensions, pricing wars, TSA.

This industry has made flying so unenjoyable and so exhausting even the seat structure is creates tensions between the customers on how much space they create.

The airline industry is its own worst enemy along with TSA being out of control concerning getting on an airplane.

 

[bakgwailo]

Also, wasn't he bumped not for it really being oversold, but because United wanted to take the seats for employees to deadhead to another job? If anything United should have put their employees on a different plane if there were no takers, completely bullshit to get bumped off the flight for something like that.

 

[stefal]

But why? If the airlines overbook a flight and they allow all the overbooked passengers to board the plane, why should they have the right to then randomly remove passengers? It's their fault that they overbooked and it's their fault that they didn't catch this at the gate and prevent the passengers from boarding in the first place. The passengers shouldn't be the ones to suffer the consequences.

From what I can see, this was a upper management issue. They realized (very late) that they needed to get those 4 employees there at any means necessary (as we saw) AFTER the flight had been boarded. The gate agents and everybody involved probably did exactly what they were supposed to do, filling the plane up, until management came in and told them to get 4 people off the plane to get the four employees down to Louisville. Had management noticed this before, none of this may have happened.

Giving up your seat because its overbooked normally occurs before the plane boards, or in the process. As we can see, if they let overbooked people on the plane, its a scene from hell. For those wondering how they chose these specific people in this instance, it was the last four people that got their seat.

My friend that works at Logan has said overbooking has gotten ridiculous in the past year/1.5 years. They keep pushing the limit on how many seats they overbook.

Then United Airlines would face bankruptcy overnight. No sane person is going to risk buying a ticket to an airline only to risk the possibility of being overbooked and kicked off the plane due to United Airlines gambling on how many people actually show up for the flight.

Chances are, if you've flown on a plane in the past several years on ANY airline, you were probably on an overbooked flight. It's a common thing.

-----

While we're on the topic, anybody fly Delta last week? Absolute shit show.

5 consecutive days of delays
-----
11k paid to couple for overbooked seats this past weekend

 

[tobyjug]

2k, a night at the Taj or Ritz with an open bar tab, and a first class seat the next day and my hand is up.

 

[datadyne007]

Chances are, if you've flown on a plane in the past several years on ANY airline, you were probably on an overbooked flight. It's a common thing.

jetBlue does not overbook as a company policy.

(Note: recently, jetBlue has experienced a rise in voluntary & involuntary denied boardings since 2016, but they are due to A321s being swapped for A320s as the fleet changes, not because of overbooking.)

 

[stefal]

jetBlue does not overbook as a company policy.

(Note: recently, jetBlue has experienced a rise in voluntary & involuntary denied boardings since 2016, but they are due to A321s being swapped for A320s as the fleet changes, not because of overbooking.)

Didn't know that... I don't fly them often

 

[odurandina]

This is bad---The video is disturbing and I'm not sure how it really went down without seeing and understanding it all.

But those passengers should have stuck up for that guy because that could have been them--

a few did stick up for the guy with verbal protests.....

 

[commuter guy]

From what I can see, this was a upper management issue. They realized (very late) that they needed to get those 4 employees there at any means necessary (as we saw) AFTER the flight had been boarded. The gate agents and everybody involved probably did exactly what they were supposed to do, filling the plane up, until management came in and told them to get 4 people off the plane to get the four employees down to Louisville.

Apparently, as per a story I heard this eve on NPR, they were going to have to cancel another flight out of Louisville if they couldn't get the 4 crew members down there.

Also never realized the "carriage of contract" we all agree to when we purchase tickets does not guarantee a seat on a particular flight. Airlines reserve the right to not let you fly for reasons including but not limited to operational reasons, which apparently this situation was catagorized as.

Lastly, I may be the only person on archboston that has personal experience being asked to leave a flight after I was boarded and seated. Full disclosure - I was on a buddy pass, but I was comfortably seated and was asked to leave the plane with less than 5 minutes minutes before takeoff, not a pleasant experience...

 

[Jouhou]

Jetblue all the way (hopefully they don't keep pandering to shareholders until they become united 2.0) and southwest is so casual about boarding/missing flights I honestly wouldn't be too irked if I was denied boarding. Just don't use them if you HAVE to be somewhere. And delta has biscoff cookies. I like those.

United always leaves a bad taste for me. And they suck at pr. This gaffe was so bad people are talking about it on the streets. What's wrong with their brains?

 

[TheRifleman]

Whats really crazy is the CEO from United is trying to justify this. This is what I mean about entitled attitude. This is why you don't bailout failure because this is the type of entitled thinking and management you get.

Anybody who thinks that dragging this doctor off the plane like they did was justifiable is insane.

NEVER bailout failure because this is the type of THINKING you get in life. ENTITLED SHITHEADS that think they are always right.

A JURY OF HIS PEERS awards this guy 10 Million just for humiliation, and assault. UNITED and the Police lose this lawsuit. Also the police officers involved should be fired immediately for acting like dumb monkeys instead of understanding the situation.

Hopefully this Doctor never settles for the money he actually seeks for Criminal charges against the Airline and the Police Dept for not protecting the innocent from Fraud & assault.

 

[kmp1284]

I'm not siding with United or the Chicago PD however United technically had the right to remove him. The manner in which they went about it was of course wrong but there's probably no basis for a criminal complaint. They'll offer him a few hundred grand, maybe an even million to shut up and go away and my guess is that he'll probably take it.

 

[JumboBuc]

I'm not siding with United or the Chicago PD however United technically had the right to remove him. The manner in which they went about it was of course wrong but there's probably no basis for a criminal complaint. They'll offer him a few hundred grand, maybe an even million to shut up and go away and my guess is that he'll probably take it.

Whatever money the airline ends up paying the passenger will be only a tiny fraction of the financial damage they will suffer from this incident. The damage to their reputation they have already incurred is probably worth tens of millions of dollars. All of this could have been avoided if only they kept pushing up their offer for someone to volunteer to give up their seat.

This was the #1 story on Chinese social media yesterday. United is the largest US airline to China and growth in China has been their key strategic focus for years. Now the narrative in China is that United Airlines is racist and they beat up Chinese people on their planes.

That being said, the airport cops were really more of the problem here than United, but the airline will be the one to suffer the PR consequences.

The video shows that the goon who pulled the passenger out of his seat didn't even raise the armrest first. Instead, he just tries to yank the guy through the armrest. Unsurprisingly, the passengers lower body gets stuck on the armrest, and it's when he breaks free that he flies across the aisle and smashes his face.

 

[TheRifleman]

I'm not siding with United or the Chicago PD however United technically had the right to remove him. The manner in which they went about it was of course wrong but there's probably no basis for a criminal complaint. They'll offer him a few hundred grand, maybe an even million to shut up and go away and my guess is that he'll probably take it.

The problem with that is this could happen to any of us. And what are you going to do if it happens to you? Take the beating and there is nothing your going to do. Just be humiliated in front of your fellow group of citizens.

I would not accept a hundred grand or million for this type of corporation and police dept logic. This passenger already claimed his correct seat--the. Asked to be removed.

Criminal charges against both groups. Definitely assault charges. You can't drag people off the plane because we did not accept their 800 dollar voucher.
How about if we drag all these ceos that the taxpayers bailed out in the street after still receiving their yearly compensation for these failed companies .

This is what moral hazzaed looks like

 

[kmp1284]

I'd have gotten off the plane when asked by United personnel, taken whatever they offered and made other arrangements to get where I needed to go. I fly about 80,000 miles a year and I've been in airports and on planes long enough to know that if airline staff asks you to do something, you would do well to oblige because if not, a couple of airport rent-a-cops looking for a rumble are coming your way.

Whatever money the airline ends up paying the passenger will be only a tiny fraction of the financial damage they will suffer from this incident. The damage to their reputation they have already incurred is probably worth tens of millions of dollars. All of this could have been avoided if only they kept pushing up their offer for someone to volunteer to give up their seat.

I completely agree but the "doctor" was a fucking idiot to stand his ground against a couple of airport cops.

 

[FenwayResident]

I completely agree but the "doctor" was a fucking idiot to stand his ground against a couple of airport cops.

Rosa Parks and Ghandi were fucking idiots too, then. Unfair rules get changed only when people protest them.

Also, why do you have doctor in scare quotes? Do you have any evidence to imply he's not a doctor?

 

[JumboBuc]

I fly about 80,000 miles a year and I've been in airports and on planes long enough to know that if airline staff asks you to do something, you would do well to oblige because if not, a couple of airport rent-a-cops looking for a rumble are coming your way.

The philosophy of "quietly do what you're told or other wise deal with the thugs 'looking for a rumble'" should have no place in a modern, advanced, democratic society. There was a clear, market-driven solution that could have avoided this whole situation.

 

[kmp1284]

The philosophy of "quietly do what you're told or other wise deal with the thugs 'looking for a rumble'" should have no place in a modern, advanced, democratic society. There was a clear, market-driven solution that could have avoided this whole situation.

No one would ever confuse the United States in its present form for modern, advanced or democratic. I'm not saying that any of what happened is right or just but that in the interest of self-preservation, I'd get off the plane to avoid the inconvenience of becoming bloodied and concussed.

 

[JumboBuc]

No one would ever confuse the United States in its present form for modern, advanced or democratic. I'm not saying that any of what happened is right or just but that in the interest of self-preservation and not making a scene, I'd get off the plane to avoid the inconvenience of becoming bloodied and concussed.

Well, that's your choice. I applaud people who stand up for what is right and just and don't just do what they're told so as to not make a scene.

 

[LH421]

Well, that's your choice. I applaud people who stand up for what is right and just and don't just do what they're told so as to not make a scene.

There was no injustice here. The passenger was among the last to check-in, and the passenger is bound by the Contract of Carriage when they purchased the ticket. The guy only has himself to blame for his personal conduct.