30 Story Building for Portland?

while that building doesn't look bad, I'm not sure I like it for Portland. Obviously, something like Intermed's marginal way building wouldn't go next to city hall, but I don't think this would either. Its not a right fit, in my opinion. I'm not sure what I would like to see there. I'll look around on the web.

It is sort of difficult to balance the want for a modern tower with the delicate balance of history and small scale development in Portland. I understand an all glass tower might look odd, but here are some of my ideas of what might not look to shabby:

I also think whatever is built there should have a wide open public space like that in front of the Key Bank plaza

fudanbuilding.jpg

l_breaksSECRETIVE.jpg

FifthOnThePark.jpg


these are just what popped up in an image search, not necessarily my ideas of an ideal building for the site in question
 
What I like about the Power & Light building is that it sort of looks like the Key Bank/Pierce Atwood building on a much larger scale.

Another similar one that I love is the State Tower Building in Syracuse. and one that is a bit too big for Portland, the Bank of America building in Providence. I don't think the BOA building would be good for Portland anyway though, but I like it.

I think that the State Tower Building and Power & Light building would be nice in Portland, but maybe not in the area that Cacouldis plans on developing (which I think is sort of what Patrick is saying?).
 
yeah I think essentially we are saying the same thing. All of the buildings you mentioned are nice, but where they are built determines how well they would fit into the community and urban fabric. What is there to blend in with where C wants to build? its almost like every side of the building would have to blend with a different aesthetic character. But, the issue is, that site and the one next to it are the tallest zoned central business lots available for large scale development 9particularly the top of the old port lot next to the pph site). bayside is zoned for a maximum of 165 feet, or 15 stories of residential, less for commercial office, which is slightly higher than the pph site, but if I had to guess I would say a developer has a better chance of receiving a zoning variance for height on the pph site than in Bayside. Personally, I think bayside should be a high rise district, and congress street should just be considered part of Old Portland.
 
I SEE PoRTLAND on vacation but now back with BOSTON peoples. I SEE DOG game but crushed. Not SEE dog tho except man in big stufed DOD SUIT. Uncle say dog man not make it from 1st to third on BABE RUTF home run!!!

I am having man y thouts on this 30 storie bui8loding of which you are always speaking.
Next. Portland NOT NEED this.
THIRD> If you build it they will suck it. You are NOT having levrige for good one. You get SKwat glass box with the windows of ribbons and alcohol bonding or glass shower curtain walls.
4th. Politisians to roll over like sick see dogs to get ANYTHING and get into bed with dog to get developer fleas.
Finally you get ugly box and MAYBE developer tack on stupid zeplin mast on side of building so POLITICINES say ' LOOKEY.We get you real BIG city arciteture. Now VOTE for me so I spend all devloper flea $$$ on hooker and drinks"

There NO seppllins anymore.

If you LIKE PORTLAND you say NO to glass flea box!!!
 
"If you build it they will suck it."
Ever tried sucking on a 30 story building? It's hard.
 
bostonbred said:
I SEE PoRTLAND on vacation but now back with BOSTON peoples. I SEE DOG game but crushed. Not SEE dog tho except man in big stufed DOD SUIT. Uncle say dog man not make it from 1st to third on BABE RUTF home run!!!

I am having man y thouts on this 30 storie bui8loding of which you are always speaking.
Next. Portland NOT NEED this.
THIRD> If you build it they will suck it. You are NOT having levrige for good one. You get SKwat glass box with the windows of ribbons and alcohol bonding or glass shower curtain walls.
4th. Politisians to roll over like sick see dogs to get ANYTHING and get into bed with dog to get developer fleas.
Finally you get ugly box and MAYBE developer tack on stupid zeplin mast on side of building so POLITICINES say ' LOOKEY.We get you real BIG city arciteture. Now VOTE for me so I spend all devloper flea $$$ on hooker and drinks"

There NO seppllins anymore.

If you LIKE PORTLAND you say NO to glass flea box!!!
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I'm sorry, but what?
 
I sort of get what he's saying, at the same time..."glass flea box?"


But Patrick; I think your right - we are pretty much saying the same thing :p
 
Yeah I completely agree with what he is saying, but at the same time, if we can keep Portland's character (which, lets face it, isn't derived from the whole city, it stems just from the arts district, west end, and old port) and at the same time also have some modern development, why not do it? This building will replace a parking lot and is at the confluence of rapidly redeveloping areas (munjoy hill gentrification, downtown revitalization, Franklin street redesign, and, perhaps most importantly, bayside). It is my contention that this thing could be built and the character of portland would remain absolutely unchanged (except, perhaps, for the better). We don't want to be worcester, springfield, or even manchester. we will never be boston. But that doesn't mean we have to be portsmouth. This sort of development should be allowed in Portland, but that said, it MUST be done right to ensure it "fits." I think it certainly can be done. there are plenty of nice "towns" out there with high rise buildings. And, its either this sort of development, or a parking lot. The price of the site reflects its high rise potential, and no one is going to invest in it to built some low rise or boutique. basically, then, it will remain a parking lot or it will become a high rise office building. Portland's character aside, those are basically the choices we are given. The right choice, to me, is obvious. I feel I can say that without any thought as to changing portland's character because, as I said before, that character is not defined by and does not stem from the neighborhood or area where the building would be built. So, I guess I agree and disagree.
 
We don't want to be worcester, springfield, or even manchester.
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Yea. This is sort of where I'm torn. Because, don't get me wrong, I love tall buildings, but it will be tough to design a tall building (well, relatively tall) that fits into the rest of the city. Granted that in the lot Cacouldis wants to build in, it will make the skyline a little lopsided, but that's okay.

I'm not sure what I want the building to look like though.
 
Josh said:
Yea. This is sort of where I'm torn. Because, don't get me wrong, I love tall buildings, but it will be tough to design a tall building (well, relatively tall) that fits into the rest of the city. Granted that in the lot Cacouldis wants to build in, it will make the skyline a little lopsided, but that's okay.

I'm not sure what I want the building to look like though.
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all good points. I considered the skyline issue, too, but the more I think of it, the more I realize that Boston, which I consider to have one of the better skylines in America, has a very lopsided skyline. If franklin street is redesigned right, this building could be the centerpiece to a new and bustling business district. Surely, whatever is built must, without exception, be a good fit, but I'll let the architects work on that. I'm just of the opinion that 30 stories (or anything above 15 stories is not too tall for maine's most urban area. Rhetorically, let me ask you something. why is it that this sort of building would be out of scale with its neighbors? because they are parking lots for one thing, but also because development like this has been thwarted in the past. There was a proposal to build 4 giant towers on the site next to this in the 1980s which also would have dominated portlands skyline. the economy precluded this effort, but had it gone forward (and when something similar does go forward) then Mr. C's tower will not be out of scale at all. I bet the maine bank and trust building, iconic to and symbolic of portland, was wildly out of scale when first built (at which time is rivaled Boston as the tallest building in new england). since its construction, boston has, obviously, outpaced portland in growth of population and commercial development. not surprising. But Portland is not just the product of its natural and geographic location, it is also the product of those who live here and make decisions here. I think you get my point so now I am just ranting. I'll stop.
 
Ha I almost mentioned Boston's skyline too. It is lopsided. The thing is, it kind of works because one side is a pretty tall building and the other is a lot of tall-ish buildings.

All kind of evens out.





Great blog. Is that yours Patrick?
 
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interesting picture. where is it from? There are two things wrong with it, though. It is growing out of the courthouse/exchange street, rather than the pph property, and it is far taller than 30 stories. look at franklin towers. its 17 stories. double it and you have 34, which still isn't as tall as this picture shows. granted, residential story space is less than commercial, but another way to think about it is to multiply 511 congress by three. then subtract a bit to account for the fact that 7 stories of this structure are planned for parking (which is even less feet per story than residential). I think if some parking was shaved off of this thing, which the city should allow given the parking spaces nextdoor, then it would fit in nicely (or at least potentially nicely) with the skyline.

here is a much more accurate depiction of what this structure might look like
30storyinportland2.jpg


note one city center's height. double it, at 4 more stories.

check this out; it is a 30 story office building in nashville, and it is also next to a historic looking low rise structure (like city hall). I think it fits. also, compare the BPL and the JH building and the pru in bos.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLiV6txvQL4
 
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Josh said:
All I did was this, knowing that the Maine Bank and Trust building is 10 stories.

30StoryInPortland3.jpg



That picture was from Corey's blog. I think it was in March.

Yea that Nashville building is pretty cool. It lends itself nicely to the more rustic construction of that olded building. Great looking building, I think!
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Yeah, I get it, but I guess what I'm trying to do is point out that there is a good possibility it won't look this out of place. from the photo you posted it looks terribly out of proportion, but I think the grade steepness changes enough heading east on congress to mitigate some of that disproportionality. This is why I pointed out that the building would in fact be built more to the east (to the left in your image). Maine bank and trust is 137 feet tall. If you triple it you have the equivalent of a 41 story residential tower (condos/apartments etc). Intermed, a much more modern building, with undoubtedly much more need for utilities, is also ten stories, but it is two feet shorter (135 feet). the reason for this is the parking garage floors, each of which is much shorter than a typical office story.

I think the city should reduce parking requirements (or even abolish them) for all downtown developments. Cacoulidis could then build a decent 23 story building (or shorter if he didn't include a hotel....and who would want to stay there anyway?). a 23 story building would fit in much more nicely in my opinion, but I think a 30 story could be made to work. its doable.
 
Here is a pic of a 25 story building in alabama next to an 11 story building, to give somewhat of an idea of what a true high rise would look like next to a low rise. I think it could work, given the development potential of the adjacent site and the potential of the courthouse site for high rises. city hall tops out at about 120 feet or 12 stories I think, so it would be similar in size to the smaller building in this picture on the left side
vfiles16612.jpg


p.s. I also think this building would be a tremendous design for that area, given its color and shape. a few more stories might be too tall, but this size I like.
 
This being NICE if you getting Superman center one. BUT Iam thinking. you get Jimy Olsen D-DAY PILLBOX on rt because it being cheapo bilt. FAT MANGY DEVLOPR infecting Portland peeoples all along withthis wachetower.
 
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