30 Story Building for Portland?

TerminatorX said:
Have you ever driven past White Plains, NY on your way to NYC? They have a population smaller than Portlands (about 53,000), but White Plains has quite a few high rises.

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city populations are often misleading. for instance, portland had a population of just about 80,000 at its peak. its not "a town of 60,000." that would be like saying boston is big for a town of 500,000, when it used to have closer to a million. also, the way the lines are drawn, and proximity to larger urban areas matters. Boston is 50 sm. portland is approx 20. if portland expanded to have the same land area as boston, which would include adding so po and about 20 sm of other towns, it would have at least 110,000 people, making it about 1/5 the size of boston, as opposed to 1/10 (which it is now, approximately). White plains, as was mentioned, is on the way to NYC. Portland is on the way to nowhere, it IS the destination. and at its current size, it is a small destination indeed. white plains benefits from traffic to and fro NYC, portland builds based on tourism and local industry, both of which are negligible compared to WP geographic area. not to disagree with your main point, but I just thought I would mention these things for those who had not considered them.

edit: also, most cities in new england have dwindled in size since the 1950s and the growth of suburbia. the main reason for this is transportation related and the fact that in other parts of the country, where cities are in fact growing, the growth is not from increased density but from annexation. anchorage alaska has about 2 bazillion (yes, I used bazillion) square miles. pheonix and other cites are similar. they are elastic cities. in the northeast, places like hartford, portland, portsmouth, new haven, providence, etc are all smaller than they would be in terms of population if they were located in the southwest. regional governments are more parochial here. there was an attempt to merge portland and southportland about 100 yrs ago, but ultimately no one wanted to. it makes sense, though, if you think about it, to have a more cohesive and unified planning approach to a contiguous urban area by having all of the planning centralized. but oh well, such is new england. I guess our way has pros as well. This was a rant.
 
Corey said:
White Plains does have a nice selection of taller buildings, but seems like a much bigger city than it is due to its proximity to NYC and its commuter population.

From the White Plains wikipedia page:

"According to the city government, the daytime weekday population is estimated at 250,000."
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yes, these things have to be considered in context. WP is a job center, similar to how Nashua, NH is a bedroom for Boston. no tall buildings in Nashua, despite a population of 90,000. and no big residential population in WP, despite a big skyline. Willmington, Deleware is similar to WP. it is a city the size of portland with a giant skyline. upon closer inspection, one realizes the reason for this is the tax incentives local government gives to corporations who would otherwise be located in nearby philly. it is really philadelphia moved a bit. just like this 30 story building would be boston moved a bit. urban areas should be considered as just that, areas, not cities, because city statistics hardly ever give an accurate picture of the urbanity of a place.
 
TerminatorX said:
According to Portland's firefighter website (http://www.portlandfirefighters.com/description.htm), Portland also has a daytime population of more than 250,000. Seems exaggerated though.
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It is.

I have looked into this and my conclusion, after reviewing other statistical measurements, is that what the website means to say is that throughout the whole day 250,000 people come in and out of the city, in total, not that there are 250,000 people in the city at its peak, which is likely the case for white plains. I would say, from my own research, that the peak daytime population of portland is closer to 100,000 at any one time. not bad, but not a quarter mill either.
 
Patrick said:
city populations are often misleading. for instance, portland had a population of just about 80,000 at its peak. its not "a town of 60,000." that would be like saying boston is big for a town of 500,000,
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609,023. ;)
 
well it was 800 or so, then 569, then 589 after menino disputed the census, and now it has an even greater population. either way, my point is illustrated well. Portland is not a city of 60,000 just as boston is not a city of 500,000. that was my point. this is true even if everyone moved out of Boston and it had the same population as portland. you wouldnt say wow it has a nice skyline for a city of 60,000 ya know/.
 
this is what portland would look like if both sites were developed into large scale high rise offices. I think if top of the old port is developed (assuming this is built) it should be shorter
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Is this Rochester or White plains? I like the glass tower!
 
That is white plains. That glass tower is possibly the most see through building i have ever seen.
 
Sorry. I should have said that. Yeah....that's White Plains.
 
Here is a working draft of an editorial I am submitting to the pressherald. thought I would share it here first. any suggestions?

John Cacoulidis? desire to erect a high-rise office building in Portland should be accepted with open arms. All too often, however, the opposite occurs and illogical opposition to such projects runs rampant. A global recession is as good a time as any to call this what it is: nonsensical. Around the Peninsula, seas of asphalt and unkempt grassy knolls dot the urban fabric. Surely Portland can, nay, must do better. Although community input is admittedly indispensable to the successful completion of any large scale development, when it is unreasoned and inconsistent with principles of smart planning, it only serves to threaten, rather than manage, important investments in our community. This particularly virulent form of the anti-development disease is not the proper function of public comment, and it should be rejected wholesale by those who value Portland and its role as Maine?s largest city. Cacoulidis? plan may or may not be right for our town, but the resolution of this issue necessitates sensible, impartial deliberation; it should not be decided upfront by a vocal but misguided NIMBY few. In its entirety, Portland?s motto is: ?I shall rise again.? It is not qualified by: ?but not too high.? Although massive conflagration hasn?t flattened the City since 1866, our motto has continued relevancy as neighboring cities threaten to eclipse us. Embrace Portland?s guiding principle. Act up to it more rapidly and systematically. Extend an open, rather than clenched, municipal hand to Mr. Cacoulidis. It would be imprudent to do otherwise.

also, here is what the city might look like if bayside fills up with high rises and cacoulidis builds this building, just for fun:

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I really like:

Portland?s motto is: ?I shall rise again.? It is not qualified by: ?but not too high.? Although massive conflagration hasn?t flattened the City since 1866, our motto has continued relevancy as neighboring cities threaten to eclipse us. Embrace Portland?s guiding principle.
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My only constructive criticism is this part: "A global recession is as good a time as any to call this what it is: nonsensical" could maybe be developed upon a little more or perhaps say it differently. I thought you were calling the project nonsensical but I think you are saying that the opposition's arguments don't make sense.
 
Corey said:
I really like:



My only constructive criticism is this part: "A global recession is as good a time as any to call this what it is: nonsensical" could maybe be developed upon a little more or perhaps say it differently. I thought you were calling the project nonsensical but I think you are saying that the opposition's arguments don't make sense.
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Thanks. I agree with you, though I thought about it after submitting it late last night. Hopefully it won't be misunderstood.
 
That's pretty cool what you did to that pic. I think a lot of us are frustrated by Portland's and Maine's like of the stubby buildings. I too think it's about time Portland add a little more height to it's backbone. My scrapbook of failed proposals is getting way to extensive! Plus I would like to see Portland finally have the tallest building in NNE!!! Bring it Manchester!
 
Nice work Patrick!

Would you hurry the hell up and run for city counsel already?

I think a lot of people around here feel the same way we do. Maybe we should start a facebook page like GrowPortland or something.
 
grittys457 said:
Nice work Patrick!

Would you hurry the hell up and run for city counsel already?

I think a lot of people around here feel the same way we do. Maybe we should start a facebook page like GrowPortland or something.
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Thanks man. I am working on it. Yeah I agree. We should do something like that. I have pages on facebook like growsmart maine and the mainedevelopment foundation etc, but none are specifically portland based. Somethig you may be interested in is the Portland Society of Architects advocacy committee, which I just joined. It is a group of architects and interested regular people from Portland and the surrounding area. They are really advocating for a design of the vet mem bridge rebuild that is similar to the penobscot narrows bridge, rather than another ugly bridge like there currently is. They are also trying to put a design professional in the current planning board opening.

do you have a fb

Planning Board ? 1 position

The Portland Planning Board has responsibility to recommend
adoption and amendments to the Comprehensive Plan of the City of
Portland, and to advise the City Council and Departments on
implementation measures for the Plan. The Planning Board makes
recommendations to the City Council on applications for zoning
text and map amendments, contract rezonings, substantial
revisions of the Site Plan and Zoning Ordinance. The Board has
jurisdiction to hear, review and approve applications for
development including site plans, subdivisions, and conditional
uses and other regulations governing development as appropriate.

aside: I just drove around town and noticed how ugly bayside is. Even with the new development, that place is ugly. its not too ugly, but for portland, transitioning from downtown to bayside is just stupid. boxy stores and boxy office buildings with parking garages. I think I actually like the shorter brick office buildings and the student housing (especially if it had a different facade, like brick) than the intermed building. Intermed is alright, but only from one corner. and, whoever designed it, put the smallest windows in. its not inviting. it looks like a vertical warehouse or something. it doesn't interact with the street well and it is facing the most weird direction for a gateway. rowhouses wouldn't be a bad idea in that area. the city doesnt seem to want to build a signature portion to downtown there, so they shouldn't pretend to. there should be more streets carved into those huge lots so its more urban. right now it is a suburban office park in the middle of downtown and it is so ugly. it has potential, but the way the city is approaching it, while better than nothing, is misguided, me thinks.
 
I think you should look into the planning board, it looks like a good place to make your voice heard on these sorts of issues.


As far as the new Veterans bridge, they can make it look easy on the eyes using several techniques but it really can't get much higher (no towers or anything). Here's the apprach to PWM:

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source

And as far as Bayside, I agree that the windows over most of the Intermed building are way to small. Larger windows would cut down on heating costs in the winter and also look much better from the outside and also from the inside. You should get out of your car and stroll around bayside, it's even worse on a pedestrian level. Plenty of room for improvement would be a positive way to describe the area.
 
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