Amazon HQ2 RFP

Status
Not open for further replies.
Tombstoner said:
Nope. The argument is not (and never was) that Pittsburgh does computer science better than Boston or engineering better than Boston or medical science better than Boston or Pittsburgh has "better culture" than Boston--that's childish 'my dad can beat up your dad' crap. The point is that Pittsburgh is (whether you know it or not) a dynamic city with a growing talent pool, great historic neighborhoods (not all of them...are all of Boston's great?), low crime, business-friendly climate and huge affordability advantages over every other city Amazon is considering. And Boston has some advantages over every other city Amazon is considering. Amazon will be weighing pros and cons of the big picture--no city ticks all the boxes. Not everything in life has to be reduced to a pissing contest.
Click to expand...

Clearly you have a passion for Pittsburgh, and that's great. I love Long Beach, CA but I can also realize that Boston (among other cities) is a way better pick for Amazon than Long Beach. Again, as far as Amazon is concerned, Boston beats Pittsburgh by almost every objective metric except for affordability, which both you and I mentioned.

Considering that this is the Amazon HQ2 thread, and not the "cities that I like and think are cool" thread, it's 100% appropriate to talk about how Boston dominates Pittsburgh (as do many of the other front-runner cities).
 
I don't know if SST would be enough space for Amazon but anything near SS is likely going to mean you'd have to throw in doing the NSRL+Indigo Line as well. So that's another 10 billion on top of the multiple billion in incentives you'd have to give Amazon. Starting to get rather pricey.
 
^^ It is; SST absolutely has the highest potential; Not only 3 South Station towers, but, parcels 25, 26a, 26b, 27, 125 Lincoln Street Garage redevelopment, the USPS building when they make the big move.... a few more parcels in Ft Point, a chance for a firesale at GE, and... and with trains leaving on the minute, the Back Bay Station project is 5 minutes up the tracks....

Who knows; maybe Four Seasons pulls a Royal Flush at Copley Tower.
 
Deetroyt said:
Haven't heard anyone mention the JFK/Umass station area. K circle needs to be fixed, but access to T, Commuter rail and 93 (access to Logan) is right there, there is tons of available land with the Bayside redev, we've heard the request for a "Harvard Sq." style neighborhood. There seems to be enough square footage that if Amazon was allowed to go dense enough the total sq footage in their RFP could be reached. The fact that the surrounding neighborhoods are lower height might lead to local opposition, but personally I think this location would be better than Suffolk
Click to expand...

I considered mentioning the JFK/UMass Station area, but I think HQ2 would be out of scale for that area. And an order of magnitude or two beyond what was being proposed by Mr. Kraft for a soccer stadium and a few shops and restaurants.

No way Mayor Walsh allows a huge redevelopment like that into a proposal without years of community meetings and planning paving the way.

Which is a problem for any proposal that isn't already on the drawing board. Boston and Cambridge (and others) are going to be keeping somewhat close to existing plans.
 
I still think the SST/vicinity would be smoothest. You've already got an approved tower design; you've got redevelopment proposals for the USPS area that have been socialized with the community over several years; you've got the Veolia steam plant that everyone wants gone; and you've got the land across the channel that essentially has no neighbors (besides GE & P&G/Gillette). It may be a slight shoe-horn in terms of space, but I'd expect a proposal centered on SST to sail through more smoothly than pretty much any other area we're talking about due to the community stakeholder aspect...

(I'm not speaking to the other dimensions of their RFP here, solely the community resistance factor)
 
Uhub links to globe article saying rfp will focus on Suffolk downs. Sorry on phone so no links
 
Can't see Suffolk Downs working. Maybe if they agreed to also build several massive housing towers in the vicinity as well. Something large enough that they would have to ram though since you know there would be local opposition.
 
CSTH said:
Old, Backwater Boston is DeLeo pushing a plush deal to offer Amazon Suffolk Downs.

New, aspirational Boston puts together the South Station bundle with NSRL.

We'll see which city we live in soon enough.

(Nothing against the Suffolk Downs site per se - i think i can and should be a model mixed use new urban green-eco redevelopment...I'm just saying its not our best option for an Amazon bid)
Click to expand...

I read this yesterday and it stuck with me. I appreciate the sentiment for sure, but I actually do disagree.

SST, postal parcel, etc - these things will happen. With or without NSRL. Heck, spec buildings in the Seaport are going 100% leased. Why would we roll out the red carpet to a company to do the things that will already happen?

Suffolk Downs is indeed old Boston, but not in the bad way you're making it out to be. It's actually a great opportunity to wind up with something 10x better and more transformative than the status quo would otherwise allow. Of course, it's all in how it's pitched, but the opportunity for Amazon to build its own urban neighborhood on transit-linked land could be extremely enticing. And, I'd wager, that R-B-X must be part of the RFP if this is to work, which is a major public benefit. The benefit for Eastie, Revere, Winthrop, etc. in terms of investment and opportunity would be tremendous.
 
To my thinking the proposal should be about laying out all the options for Amazon and not narrowing down or focusing on any one location.

In order:

1) South Station/Fort Point
2) Kendall Square/North Point
3) Harvard's Allston Beacon Yards
4) One Congress and surrounding area
5) South Weymouth/Union Point
6) Suffolk Downs
7) Cummings/Woburn/Anderson RTC
8) Other?
 
My list....

Primary;
1) One Congress + 3~4 additional Govt Center/West End area parcels
2) South Station/Fort Point/DOT-Steamplant parcels/Post Office/125 Lincoln Garage

Secondary;
1) Kendall Square/North Point
2) Harvard Allston train yards
3) Seaport
4) Back Bay Station + possible project change at Copley Place.
5) Fenway: Brookline Ave/Beacon St Triangle.
6) Dot Ave
 
odurandina said:
^^ It is; SST absolutely has the highest potential; Not only 3 South Station towers, but, parcels 25, 26a, 26b, 27, 125 Lincoln Street Garage redevelopment, the USPS building when they make the big move.... a few more parcels in Ft Point, a chance for a firesale at GE, and... and with trains leaving on the minute, the Back Bay Station project is 5 minutes up the tracks....

Who knows; maybe Four Seasons pulls a Royal Flush at Copley Tower.
Click to expand...

And how many major tech companies have their HQ in a tower? I can think of only one: Salesforce.

Google's 2.8 million square feet in Manhattan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111_Eighth_Avenue

Google's future complex in downtown San Jose. On 240 acres.
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/06/06/google-san-jose-craft-search-giants-downtown-expansion/

Do you see any friggin' towers?
 
stellarfun said:
And how many major tech companies have their HQ in a tower? I can think of only one: Salesforce.

Google's 2.8 million square feet in Manhattan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111_Eighth_Avenue

Google's future complex in downtown San Jose. On 240 acres.
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/06/06/google-san-jose-craft-search-giants-downtown-expansion/

Do you see any friggin' towers?
Click to expand...

Boeing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_International_Headquarters

BMW:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Headquarters

Xerox:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Tower

Comcast "Innovation and Technology Center":
http://www.visitphilly.com/articles/philadelphia/the-comcast-innovation-and-technology-center/

CapitalOne (proposed):
http://www.skyscrapercenter.com/building/capital-one-headquarters-tower/16814

The headquarters tower isn't necessarily where all the engineers will sit. Clearly at 8m sq-ft, Amazon is looking for a mix of buildings. There's no way you've got one type of employee constituting 50,000 people. Some fraction of those are types that would probably situate just fine in a tower.
 
stellarfun said:
Do you see.....
Click to expand...

i sure do. i'm in LA, where they're handing out permits for 900' towers like candy.

Plan for up to 5.0m sq ft at either primary Downtown site (eventually 4-6 highrises), incl at least 1 tall skyscraper w/ marquis signage... and
the remaining 3-4m sq ft in 8-10 bldgs distributed between Northpoint and Allston rail yards. God bless the Walsh admn to key on max revenue
(tall) on our last few significant highrise parcels. FAA on speed dial and stacking those offices in the first 20-30 floors w/ condo's and hotels above.
That's how you fucking win. That's how Boston developers get financing, Boston refills its coffers, and positions itself to be all it can be.

This isn't 1985. This needs to be Boston's next defining moment. Amazon is knocking at the door. You Plan big *(what we call big is slightly
above the minimum) or plan on getting left in the dust by SF, Chicago, LA, Seattle, Philadelphia, Dallas and Atlanta for the rest of eternity.....

30th Street Station/Market/Arch St planning....

 
Last edited:
stellarfun said:
And how many major tech companies have their HQ in a tower? I can think of only one: Salesforce.

Google's 2.8 million square feet in Manhattan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111_Eighth_Avenue

Google's future complex in downtown San Jose. On 240 acres.
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/06/06/google-san-jose-craft-search-giants-downtown-expansion/

Do you see any friggin' towers?
Click to expand...

Ummm....

http://asi-mo.com/product/amazon-headquartersseattle-wa/

AH1.jpg
]
 
The 30th St Station area in Philly is a super-accessible site: rail to all "metro" points, rail to PHL airport, Acela to WAS & NYC.

One could argue that Boston has so far wasted South Station's access on too many buildings no taller than the Ft Pt /Wharf stuff and even the future SSX build up is too short compared to what's been piled on Grand Central or will be on 30th St in PHL.
 
Arlington said:
The 30th St Station area in Philly is a super-accessible site: rail to all "metro" points, rail to PHL airport, Acela to WAS & NYC.

One could argue that Boston has so far wasted South Station's access on too many buildings no taller than the Ft Pt /Wharf stuff and even the future SSX build up is too short compared to what's been piled on Grand Central or will be on 30th St in PHL.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure this is entirely fair - Philly has a vision, same as Boston does. Their project is no more real than SSX and Dot Ave. They have more high-def renders, sure, but that doesn't equate to real development.
 
I think SST would be great for Amazon, but there are some hurdles that make it less than a sure shot.


  • First off, between SST, the USPS parcel, the MassDOT & Violia parcel, and whatever you can assemble across the channel, you probably can only get ~4-5M SF of buildout. Amazon wants 8M. It's probably not a deal breaker, but really depends on how much amazon wants that 8M SF to be in a closely grouped bunch of buildings.
  • Amazon wants the first 500k SF by 2019. Even if you assume that's by the end of 2019, it's a tough time frame for Hines to get the tower up & move-in ready. Again, this is something could choose to be flexible on...or not.
  • The USPS parcel, MassDot/Veolia parcels aren't "done deals". While most agree that it will most likely happen, nothing is set in stone. If for whatever reason USPS doesn't move, that's 2.5M SF of potential build out lost.

If they can overlook these items, I think SST has great upside. One thing I'm curious about, is I wonder how willing they are to lease space versus owning/developing their own building outright.


Edit: Just read the BisNow article that big picture linked to that says that 6M SF is possible at USPS, so maybe the gap isn't that wide. I was referencing an old image for the 2.5M SF number I got.
 
Last edited:
Equilibria said:
I'm not sure this is entirely fair - Philly has a vision, same as Boston does. Their project is no more real than SSX and Dot Ave. They have more high-def renders, sure, but that doesn't equate to real development.
Click to expand...

More on Philly:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Philadelphia

Land is so cheap because you have a greater chance of getting murdered there than any other city with 1M people. One of the most violent large cities in the US.

Regarding Boston, I would still say Northpoint if they can sell it as an extension of the Kendall Square tech vibe that's going on now. Tough for any other city outside of Silicon Valley to match that. I'm also completely on board with SST and surrounding area. One would hope Amazon could set up temporarily in an existing high rise while that project gets off the ground.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top