Amazon HQ2 RFP

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I don't think Worcester's bid is totally crazy. The city can check some boxes while it can't check others. Worcester definitely has cheap land and it's not far enough out of Boston that there is no tech talent to be found or recruited (it's also not a bad city... it's just not Boston). It certainly can't check as many boxes as Boston or other US cities, but we have no idea what Amazon's priorities are with regards to the requirements... which are must haves vs. nice to haves etc.

That said. This isn't really Boston vs. Worcester. This is US vs. Massachusetts first and foremost... Boston vs. Worcester is a second or third order problem. I still think this thing ends up in NYC or Philly.
 
meddlepal said:
I don't think Worcester's bid is totally crazy. The city can check some boxes while it can't check others. Worcester definitely has cheap land and it's not far enough out of Boston that there is no tech talent to be found or recruited (it's also not a bad city... it's just not Boston). It certainly can't check as many boxes as Boston or other US cities, but we have no idea what Amazon's priorities are with regards to the requirements... which are must haves vs. nice to haves etc.

That said. This isn't really Boston vs. Worcester. This is US vs. Massachusetts first and foremost... Boston vs. Worcester is a second or third order problem. I still think this thing ends up in NYC or Philly.
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Amazon has been crystal clear, no? Right close by to an International Airport.
 
In the meantime, my client today mentioned Baltimore's bid for Amazon. Before I could laugh, he told me to Google "Port Covington" where Kevin Plank of Under Armour is looking to build its new HQ. He wants $535 million in tax incentives for his $5.5 billion project and is getting some pushback from the populace. If he brings in Amazon, it could be game over.

This piece in the Baltimore Sun was done before the Amazon sweepstakes were announced:
http://data.baltimoresun.com/news/port-covington/

OMG - - this is going to be a very stiff competitor.

- Plenty of city waterfront land

- City to build mass transit rail right through the development

- the mass transit is on a line that goes directly to the terminal at BWI/Marshall Airport (9 minute train ride)

- also looking at Northeast Corridor Amtrak accessibility to ensure 35 minute access to Union Station in DC - - - - where Mr. Bezos happens to own a very important newspaper

- far lower construction costs than Boston

- far lower cost of living than Boston

- Baltimore is nowhere near the world class city Boston is, but they definitely have some advantages with this development.



......I'm not laughing anymore.

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Amazon has been crystal clear, no? Right close by to an International Airport.
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They cite ideal requirements in the RFP document. No city is going to be able to meet them all. Airport is cited as within approximately 45min. That puts Worcester just barely out of range today but it's fixable. I can drive Boston to Worcester non rush hour in 45 min. Logan is an extra 15 min.

But as I said previously... these don't really appear to be hard requirements. Few cities could meet all of them and Amazon knows that... that is an intern-level research project to find all the cities that meet those requirements. Amazon's looking for the best deal and we have no idea how important each requirement is... if they care mostly about land cost then Worcester makes a ton of sense. I really doubt Amazon actually cares about land cost since they have a shit ton of money, but it's definitely a play even if it's unlikely.

Worcester stops making sense if Amazon values mass transit, air transport, and existing population / talent as more valuable. However, keep in mind Amazon isn't doing a full build... it's a decade long plan which gives lots of time for communities and the state to attract new workers and update infrastructure. If MA somehow does land Amazon and in the even more unlikely scenario Worcester somehow lands Amazon I have a hard time believing the State does not bend over backwards trying to do everything it can to improve infrastructure and connectivity between Worcester and Boston.
 
One big advantage the Worcester area has over Boston is affordability. 100k family salary in Boston is really only enough to buy a 300-400k place. Try to finding that in a nice neighborhood. Around Worcester you can.
 
tysmith95 said:
One big advantage the Worcester area has over Boston is affordability. 100k family salary in Boston is really only enough to buy a 300-400k place. Try to finding that in a nice neighborhood. Around Worcester you can.
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Then Biloxi, Mississippi is a favorite.

Look, Baltimore has a 16% LOWER cost of living than Worcester ( http://www.bestplaces.net/cost-of-living/worcester-ma/baltimore-md/50000) an international deep water port (much larger than Boston's), plus a 9 minute rapid transit seat to an international airport and nearby access to DC.

Anyone thinking Worcester can compete against the Port Covington Baltimore bid is deluding themselves. Boston has a puncher's chance because of the schools and the existing tech.....and because it is a world class city.

If cost of living/construction is not a big deal to Bezos, then Boston beats them both easily.

It's clear Bezos wants world class splash with the location. Seti Warren was hilarious with the Billerica idea (obviously a pol trying to get points for his statewide run). Cinderella's ugly sisters are being pushed hard by their stepmothers all across the nation. No second/third/fourth tier city is going to get this. Baltimore is borderline. Boston is prime. What hurts Boston is the lack of space and cost. Baltimore has plenty of space in a waterfront/mass transit location, has lower costs and is desperate enough to throw more ransom money at Bezos than Boston will. Should be interesting choice process. But no, folks. The ugly stepsisters are not getting Prince Charming's slipper. Sorry, Methuen.
 
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meddlepal said:
.....Worcester stops making sense if Amazon values mass transit, air transport, and existing population / talent as more valuable..... .
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Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

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I find it a bit amusing how Boston folks think Worcester is half way across the damn country. It's 40 something miles outside of Boston. It's more accessible to Boston area talent than some cities are to talent in their own city borders due to traffic and size (looking at you LA, Atlanta and Houston). Hell the reverse commute is pretty damn comfortable too for Boston -> Worcester. I also don't think it's all that hard of a stretch either to see folks just moving to Worcester. I know plenty of software developers in their 30's and 40's that would move west if the job situation were a bit more competitive or just better in general in Central MA.

Anywho I'm gonna stop beating this drum because I also don't really think Worcester has a chance (but I'll be pleasantly surprised if it does somehow land Amazon) and it's clearly triggering some folks on the board based on the responses.
 
I actually think the biggest issue with a Worcester bid is that the state legislature is unlikely to agree on the kind of incentive package needed. Boston or Cambridge yes.
 
In Amazons main headquarters the city is way over budget and late on a project to bury a highway that cuts through the city center. In Boston the same thing happened (to an even larger scale)!
 
Tale of wtf..... tired of the fucking whiners....

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...-amazon-bid/GJCbQ6jVCA4FBMLtoUCPHO/story.html

"But Boston also is costly and congested, with decaying roads and rail lines and — at times — a cranky disposition toward bold changes. That sounds more like the kind of place that could send West Coast technology types running for the exits.

"Which version of the city top Amazon executives see might determine Boston’s odds of landing the e-commerce titan’s “second headquarters,” a massive complex that eventually could generate 50,000 well-paying jobs....

"....So far, the opposition has been muted, centered on the size of potential tax breaks for Amazon that have yet to be spelled out. A poll released Thursday by WBUR found 66 percent of Boston voters support the bid to land Amazon, with just 20 percent against it...."
 
Regardless of Amazon, Massachusetts could do well with a renewed sense of focus on utilizing greater Boston's strengths making sure we continue moving forward.
 
odurandina said:
Tale of wtf..... tired of the fucking whiners....

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...-amazon-bid/GJCbQ6jVCA4FBMLtoUCPHO/story.html

"But Boston also is costly and congested, with decaying roads and rail lines and — at times — a cranky disposition toward bold changes. That sounds more like the kind of place that could send West Coast technology types running for the exits.

"Which version of the city top Amazon executives see might determine Boston’s odds of landing the e-commerce titan’s “second headquarters,” a massive complex that eventually could generate 50,000 well-paying jobs....

"....So far, the opposition has been muted, centered on the size of potential tax breaks for Amazon that have yet to be spelled out. A poll released Thursday by WBUR found 66 percent of Boston voters support the bid to land Amazon, with just 20 percent against it...."
Click to expand...

Seems to be a pretty neutral article. I agree that an Amazon headquarters would be great. However I think the ability of the city and region to house all of the Amazon employees needs to be discussed.
 
shmessy said:
In the meantime, my client today mentioned Baltimore's bid for Amazon. Before I could laugh, he told me to Google "Port Covington" where Kevin Plank of Under Armour is looking to build its new HQ. He wants $535 million in tax incentives for his $5.5 billion project and is getting some pushback from the populace. If he brings in Amazon, it could be game over.

This piece in the Baltimore Sun was done before the Amazon sweepstakes were announced:
http://data.baltimoresun.com/news/port-covington/

OMG - - this is going to be a very stiff competitor.

- Plenty of city waterfront land

- City to build mass transit rail right through the development

- the mass transit is on a line that goes directly to the terminal at BWI/Marshall Airport (9 minute train ride)

- also looking at Northeast Corridor Amtrak accessibility to ensure 35 minute access to Union Station in DC - - - - where Mr. Bezos happens to own a very important newspaper

- far lower construction costs than Boston

- far lower cost of living than Boston

- Baltimore is nowhere near the world class city Boston is, but they definitely have some advantages with this development.



......I'm not laughing anymore.

.
Click to expand...

Baltimore is a dump, however I'd be more worried about the greater DC metro area. If Baltimore was by itself, as in not near DC, it would have as much credibility as a Detroit or Buffalo bid.

Look, I get it. Its always nice to see a struggling city get a break. What I don't know, and I'm more than a bit skeptical about, is if Amazon wants to take on the added project of revitalizing a city be it Baltimore or somewhere else that's been down on its luck for the last 50+ years.

Think about it - you locate in a struggling city. First of all the political situation is probably dysfunctional as it tends to be in these places. Also pretty soon people are going to resent your tax breaks while schools remain underfunded plus crime continues to be a problem but regular citizens are paying through the nose. Lastly once you start building people will expect an instantaneous turnaround which is human nature but not actually possible.

Maybe Bezos is super altruistic and wants to play the white knight. But, if cost is the issue, he's going to Austin.
 
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Here's a video of the first new orange line cars moving.
https://twitter.com/JoePesaturo/status/917739435021742081
I think it makes the most sense to build around something like this and push the idea to string the campus along the OL from North Station to Assembly. Between Northpoint, the inner belt, Sullivan and the land fronting the Mystic, there's enough land for a campus and new housing. There will be an OL with all new stock and increased frequency.
There's an opportunity for branding and expansion.
There's opportunities to tie in with BHCC.
If Boston, Cambridge and Somerville can all work well together (not likely), it could be a winning bid.
 
tysmith95 said:
Seems to be a pretty neutral article. I agree that an Amazon headquarters would be great. However I think the ability of the city and region to house all of the Amazon employees needs to be discussed.
Click to expand...

It has been discussed... 50,000 (potential) well paying jobs is a good number but it is little more than a drop in the bucket of a major metropolitan area. And it certainly doesn't necessarily represent new people moving here to take Amazon jobs... Amazon would be moving here because the people are already here or they are already coming here for University education. Heck 50,000 is just a relatively small percentage of the total number of college graduates over ten years.

Every city has crumbling infrastructure... cause it starts to crumble as soon as you build it. Cities exist, survive and thrive because they can continue to renew themselves as centers of commerce, education and entertainment. Or they don't.

Using Amazon (or the Olympics or whatever next big thing) as a vehicle for griping about every pothole or delay on the T is counterproductive. Boston is a world class city that has both unique problems and world class problems like every other big metropolitan area.
 
Ruairi said:
Here's a video of the first new orange line cars moving.
https://twitter.com/JoePesaturo/status/917739435021742081
I think it makes the most sense to build around something like this and push the idea to string the campus along the OL from North Station to Assembly. Between Northpoint, the inner belt, Sullivan and the land fronting the Mystic, there's enough land for a campus and new housing. There will be an OL with all new stock and increased frequency.
There's an opportunity for branding and expansion.
There's opportunities to tie in with BHCC.
If Boston, Cambridge and Somerville can all work well together (not likely), it could be a winning bid.
Click to expand...

Throw it in there, but I don't think we are at that stage in the proposal process... a few dozen landowners would have a say in any proposal that identified their properties unless you just keep it vague like "Hey maybe we have some development opportunities around here". Unless there is already a plan someplace that identifies the potential redevelopment.

And why down select to one area even? Put it all in there. Everything. Every piece of real estate that is on the market in Greater Boston, available to lease, potentially redevelopable... buffet style.

Overwhelm Amazon with the potential options such that it is one stop shopping... if they want a tax incentive contiguous parcel that needs a lot of remediation or has some significant downsides that will need a lot of time and money to make for a campus (like something you can get around a lot of different cities)...or the potential to string together prime downtown market rate locations either already built or already planned and approved. Or all of the above.

Maybe at this point identify some specific properties that could get tax incentive financing based on a particular expenses related to redevelopment (other real estate would have to be just market rate), but otherwise everything should be jobs based tax incentives at the state level and communities should be advocating for things that are already in their planning pipeline.
 
Just had a thought... Not sure if it made the extended list yet of potential campuses, but Lynn waterfront could be on the list of large potential campuses further from Downtown Boston. Up to 300 acres of waterfront land primed for a big redevelopment close to two existing commuter rail stations with the potential Blue line extension on the drawing board.

Downsides are lack of good highway access (potential for improvement) and Blue line hasn't gotten off the drawing board in decades, but if anything could get the state to move forward on those two transportation issues this could. Lynn has more inherent potential for a better long term result than Suffolk Downs being that it is directly waterfront and buildings can go higher being further away from Logan. Certainly would need some Tax Incentive Financing for remediation and infrastructure.
 
tangent said:
Regardless of Amazon, Massachusetts could do well with a renewed sense of focus on utilizing greater Boston's strengths making sure we continue moving forward.
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+1.

I'm mixed about the whole Amazon thing for Boston. It would be a huge adrenaline shot, but it would also sap much recruiting strength from the NEXT Amazons that are springing up on both sides of the river.

That being said, the N-S Rail Link is a far better use of our resources at this time and will reap many multiples of the Amazon move per dollar over the next several decades.

If Boston takes care of these 3 fundamentals, there is no need for a behemoth to ransom billions from the city/commonwealth:

1) N-S Rail Link
2) Pay the ransom to move the US Post Office and Gillette out of Fort Point Channel
3) Count the money

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