Amazon HQ2 RFP

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tysmith95 said:
http://www.wbur.org/bostonomix/2017/10/18/new-hampshire-amazon-headquarters-bid

NH is submitting a bid, which just critizes Boston as being too congested.
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I was born in NH, spent half of my life in NH...have a special place in my heart for NH...and yet would criticize NH as being too irrelevant.

Too congested, really? How about too-nothing-going-on?

(sorry, but there's some irony in that this state doesn't want to fund/invest in anything of its own...yet, conveniently finds lots of what it needs next door in Massachusetts...errrrr, International Airport, anyone?)
 
bigpicture7 said:
Too congested, really? How about too-nothing-going-on?
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I could see nothing going on as a positive. After all, Amazon employees are going to be doing nothing but working at Amazon and sleeping. Wouldn't want them to get distracted.
 
bigpicture7 said:
I was born in NH, spent half of my life in NH...have a special place in my heart for NH...and yet would criticize NH as being too irrelevant.

Too congested, really? How about too-nothing-going-on?

(sorry, but there's some irony in that this state doesn't want to fund/invest in anything of its own...yet, conveniently finds lots of what it needs next door in Massachusetts...errrrr, International Airport, anyone?)
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It's nice to have all of the Granite Stateers commuting down to Mass and paying our income tax.
 
jklo said:
I could see nothing going on as a positive. After all, Amazon employees are going to be doing nothing but working at Amazon and sleeping. Wouldn't want them to get distracted.
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Haha, well I wasn't exactly talking about nightlife. How about education systems (collegiate and otherwise), symbiotic corporate environments, hospitals, international/transcon transportation...sources of large quantities of college grad employees willing to STAY living there after college...

I remember, whilst growing up, hearing about NH car accidents followed by "the driver was airlifted to Mass General"...

I love some of the quaint beauty of NH, but don't fool yo'selves thinking that you're living on an independently-fortified island...NH is part of the new england ecosystem; just further from the action.

tysmith95 said:
It's nice to have all of the Granite Stateers commuting down to Mass and paying our income tax.
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Agreed, but that's not me...been a masshole living/working here approaching 20 yrs now, thanks : )
 
i wrote letters to Golden and Walsh in recent days. just now, i wrote a not so nice review of Walsh's choice of Suffolk Downs. i'm sure i chose poorly. i do that. My short essay probably won't make me very popular around the Mayor's office. i suppose the natural response is 'i doubt anyone really cares...'
fair enough.

http://www.bostonglobe.com/business...p1=Article_Recommended_ReadMore_Pos2#comments

Tosh said:
Boston has most-likely lost it's Amazon bid. Boston, Cambridge, Somerville, Everybody.

We have reached a fork in the road. All might seem like 'good times.'

But, maybe the next article in the Globe should read, "Did Boston Survive the Big Dig?" i'm actually not convinced we did. Events of such magnitude, however beneficial can have long term effects.

You fall behind... it snowballs, and you never come back. The NYC to northern VA corridor is a burgeoning mega-metropolis that has the potential to leave Massachusetts in the proverbial dust–if it actually hasn't already begun.

i've grown skeptical about Massachusetts' future. In 1982 we weren't a tech player; we were the Tech Gods... We no-longer possess the economic clout to compete with a regional giant like San Francisco matching power with power.
It happened to Connecticut, and we're clearly trending in a similar direction.

Worse than Connecticut, we lack key strategic benefits enjoyed by NYC/Mid-Atlantic regions. We're not a regional capital like Chicago, or on the West Coast.... i'll get crucified for saying this; but our economic model is coming home to roost. The foundation is showing cracks.

The signs are likely there. The big banks and finance left a decade ago. And despite the recent biotech boom, we lack many jobs in other sectors we once could count as strengths... We're not building infrastructure at a rate that should leave potential serious players feeling any way but uneasy.... We're very strong on smallish tenants for lab space but we still lack major tenants enjoyed by many other cities.

That companies don't locate or expand here in a greater way, or capitalize more on our education cache to an extent greater than they do–remains a main source of concern.

i had a conversation with a friend in the State House about Air Rights projects. He's generally pessimistic about Massachusetts' economic strength. About Air-Rights, he just laughed. Despite a robust search for new sites, we should be much further along developing Air-Rights. That there's no leadership or the money to help developers mitigate the inordinate up front costs is troubling... We can't do Air Rights. not really.

About 18 months ago, the outlook on some high risk projects looked pretty good. Developers have since pulled back. We continue along. But since that time, our most challenging projects remain barely visible, or haven't been joined by so many others that should have started. This situation tells me we're kind of in trouble.

Since about the late 80's, it seems like we puked up a lung. Not winning Amazon is a sign. There are other signs that point to Massachusetts never breaking out. People who say we shouldn't welcome Amazon are wrong.

The loss of our finance dealt a heavy blow. No, i don't think we really survived our tech crash... or the Big Dig. The consequences of this latest setback will be... terrible.
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Tosh, that paints a very negative picture of Boston. We have one of, if not the lowest unemployment rate of any metro area in the nation. We are one of the wealthiest population centers in the nation. Jobs have not left here in droves. If we lose amazon we'll still be fine.

Just cause we're smaller then NYC does not mean our economy is bad.
 
If Suffolk downs is really the only area offered up in Boston's proposal, then that's a damn shame. It makes me think that Boston honed in on the 100 acre line and said, "welp, Suffolk downs fits the bill, slap it on a nice background and send it in." I hope they at least included the Red/Blue connector in their proposal(obviously requires state buy-in). If people can't easily commute of the red line corridor to SD, why would they want to work out side of the CBD?

Everyone has been getting too hung up on the big numbers. 50,000 jobs/$5B investment/100 acres, and forgetting that those are 2027 and beyond numbers. Lots can change in 10 years. Amazon is not coming in to plop down an Apple type complex.

Their initial requirement is for 500,000-1,000,000 SF. Now they say they prefer but "in no particular order",
  1. Existing buildings of at least 500k SF
  2. Certified pad ready site of 100 acres with utilities in place
  3. Other infill/renovation of existing buildings

In my opinion, that sounds like a particular order. You would be hard-pressed to demo the existing buildings at Suffolk Downs, re mediate the soil, and upgrade the utilities (assuming this is required) AND design/build a 500k-1M SF office building by the end of 2019. A building of that size will only bring in a few thousand employees. More-over, do we think the kind of talent that Amazon wants to attract is looking to commute out to Suffolk Downs? To work next to a tank farm?

I certainly hope they had some other potential sites on their proposal. I assume we'll find out either today or tomorrow what the actual proposal looked like.
 
The situation is not nearly so dire as you seem to think. To second what ty said. Also your point about Boston not being a regional "capital" like Chicago point blank just ridiculous. Boston is absolutely the cultural and economic capital of New England. Boston may not seem to be on as strong a footing as you wish but it isn't that weak. It's connection with NYC and the rest of the Northeast Megaregion has always been a little weaker or another way to look at it is that Boston has always been more independent. This is partially because there aren't as many large cities close together north of New York and partially because New England for hundreds of years has focused for the most part towards Boston so unlike Philly for example Boston's sphere of influence had a chance to spread and did spread much further. This independence can be helpful for example Boston unlike Philly does not get overshadowed by NYC in the same way that Philly has been at times, but it still has access to the rest of the megaregion and can take advantage of those connections when it needs to.

Economically Boston is doing amazingly well. As mentioned already the unemployment rate is one of the lowest of any major metro area at 3.6%. A few luxury condo towers being put on hold because the ultra-luxury/luxury markets are slowing down is not the end of the world. The office towers are waiting for tenants which I expect will appear sooner than we might think and there are tons of infill projects ranging from small building by building infill to larger brownfield site infill like Boston Landing and Assembly Row.
 
bobthebuilder said:
If Suffolk downs is really the only area offered up in Boston's proposal, then that's a damn shame. It makes me think that Boston honed in on the 100 acre line and said, "welp, Suffolk downs fits the bill, slap it on a nice background and send it in." I hope they at least included the Red/Blue connector in their proposal(obviously requires state buy-in). If people can't easily commute of the red line corridor to SD, why would they want to work out side of the CBD?

Everyone has been getting too hung up on the big numbers. 50,000 jobs/$5B investment/100 acres, and forgetting that those are 2027 and beyond numbers. Lots can change in 10 years. Amazon is not coming in to plop down an Apple type complex.

Their initial requirement is for 500,000-1,000,000 SF. Now they say they prefer but "in no particular order",
  1. Existing buildings of at least 500k SF
  2. Certified pad ready site of 100 acres with utilities in place
  3. Other infill/renovation of existing buildings

In my opinion, that sounds like a particular order. You would be hard-pressed to demo the existing buildings at Suffolk Downs, re mediate the soil, and upgrade the utilities (assuming this is required) AND design/build a 500k-1M SF office building by the end of 2019. A building of that size will only bring in a few thousand employees. More-over, do we think the kind of talent that Amazon wants to attract is looking to commute out to Suffolk Downs? To work next to a tank farm?

I certainly hope they had some other potential sites on their proposal. I assume we'll find out either today or tomorrow what the actual proposal looked like.
Click to expand...

I think that if Amazon chooses Boston, it's not going to care which site the City (or Somerville, for that matter) chose to focus on. They know the place. They just bought real estate in Fort Point and they're a tenant in Back Bay and Kendall.

Boston stands a great chance of being Amazon's choice, but I hope they lean more toward Curtatone's vision than Walsh's (which is really DeLeo's). Eastie doesn't need the upward pressure on housing prices of a tech campus next door, which would drive out multigenerational residents. Cambridge, Somerville, and Downtown/Dot Ave would all be better choices.
 
Equilibria said:
Eastie doesn't need the upward pressure on housing prices of a tech campus next door, which would drive out multigenerational residents. Cambridge, Somerville, and Downtown/Dot Ave would all be better choices.
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Indeed. It would have an totally eclipsing, overwhelming effect there. Meanwhile there are plenty of other places where this could plug right in, and have minimal negative ripple effect.
 
bobthebuilder said:
If Suffolk downs is really the only area offered up in Boston's proposal, then that's a damn shame. It makes me think that Boston honed in on the 100 acre line and said, "welp, Suffolk downs fits the bill, slap it on a nice background and send it in." I hope they at least included the Red/Blue connector in their proposal(obviously requires state buy-in). If people can't easily commute of the red line corridor to SD, why would they want to work out side of the CBD?

Everyone has been getting too hung up on the big numbers. 50,000 jobs/$5B investment/100 acres, and forgetting that those are 2027 and beyond numbers. Lots can change in 10 years. Amazon is not coming in to plop down an Apple type complex.

Their initial requirement is for 500,000-1,000,000 SF. Now they say they prefer but "in no particular order",
  1. Existing buildings of at least 500k SF
  2. Certified pad ready site of 100 acres with utilities in place
  3. Other infill/renovation of existing buildings

In my opinion, that sounds like a particular order. You would be hard-pressed to demo the existing buildings at Suffolk Downs, re mediate the soil, and upgrade the utilities (assuming this is required) AND design/build a 500k-1M SF office building by the end of 2019. A building of that size will only bring in a few thousand employees. More-over, do we think the kind of talent that Amazon wants to attract is looking to commute out to Suffolk Downs? To work next to a tank farm?

I certainly hope they had some other potential sites on their proposal. I assume we'll find out either today or tomorrow what the actual proposal looked like.
Click to expand...

Suffolk Downs isn't exactly in the boonies. It's a 13 minute train ride from Government Center/State Street. I just looked up on Google Maps the public transit commute times from various points in Greater Boston:

Back Bay: 25 minutes
Kenmore: 30 minutes
Central Square: 29 minutes
North End: 21 minutes
South End: 31 minutes
South Boston (West Broadway & D): 41 minutes
Assembly Square: 29 minutes

A lot of those commute times are better than what people currently do from Allston, Brighton, Brookline, Somerville, and Quincy. People wanting to live an urban lifestyle would be able to live in the city and commute into Suffolk Downs without too much hassle.

The only big losers at Suffolk Downs would be people living in the suburbs South and West of Boston since they'd have to do Commuter Rail --> Red Line --> Orange Line --> Blue Line. Presumably people living in the northern suburbs would choose to drive to Suffolk Downs rather than take the commuter rail into NS.
 
Suffolk Downs: access to Sea & Airport too.
 
tysmith95 said:
Tosh, that paints a very negative picture of Boston. We have one of, if not the lowest unemployment rate of any metro area in the nation. We are one of the wealthiest population centers in the nation. Jobs have not left here in droves. If we lose amazon we'll still be fine.

Just cause we're smaller then NYC does not mean our economy is bad.
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It's a mentality unique to Boston I think, that we just can't believe Boston is a major global economic powerhouse! Whether it's an inferiority complex, or false modesty that goes back to the Brahmin days, or a combination of both, I don't know. But Boston is a major player on the world's economic stage.


https://www.atkearney.com/global-cities
 
FenwayResident said:
Suffolk Downs isn't exactly in the boonies. It's a 13 minute train ride from Government Center/State Street. I just looked up on Google Maps the public transit commute times from various points in Greater Boston:

Back Bay: 25 minutes
Kenmore: 30 minutes
Central Square: 29 minutes
North End: 21 minutes
South End: 31 minutes
South Boston (West Broadway & D): 41 minutes
Assembly Square: 29 minutes

A lot of those commute times are better than what people currently do from Allston, Brighton, Brookline, Somerville, and Quincy. People wanting to live an urban lifestyle would be able to live in the city and commute into Suffolk Downs without too much hassle.

The only big losers at Suffolk Downs would be people living in the suburbs South and West of Boston since they'd have to do Commuter Rail --> Red Line --> Orange Line --> Blue Line. Presumably people living in the northern suburbs would choose to drive to Suffolk Downs rather than take the commuter rail into NS.
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Here's hoping that the City's package includes the Red-Blue connector, which turns some of those into a 2-seat ride, and many of the rest into a 3-seater.

Amazon@SuffolkDowns would also greatly speed the introduction of a Blue-Newbury-Rockport connection, either by Blue's extension to Lynn or by moving sidewalk at a new Wonderland CR.

It would also favor a better NSRL-Blue connection, either via Central Station or by ensuring that the North Station/Haymarket NSRL gets a good connection to Aquarium or State.

One can also imagine the Silver Line Gateway getting a spur up the abandoned rail line that parallels 1A at the water's edge, which would get you a 1-seat ride from South Station.
 
Equilibria said:
I think that if Amazon chooses Boston, it's not going to care which site the City (or Somerville, for that matter) chose to focus on. They know the place. They just bought real estate in Fort Point and they're a tenant in Back Bay and Kendall.

Boston stands a great chance of being Amazon's choice, but I hope they lean more toward Curtatone's vision than Walsh's (which is really DeLeo's). Eastie doesn't need the upward pressure on housing prices of a tech campus next door, which would drive out multigenerational residents. Cambridge, Somerville, and Downtown/Dot Ave would all be better choices.
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I hope you are right. Bottom line is that the state and city of Boston and apparently other surrounding municipalities couldn't agree on submitting one proposal that included potential real estate in multiple communities and decided they all needed to submit their own competing (and politically laden) micro-proposals despite Amazon saying they preferred one regional proposal.

If I were Amazon I would just end up putting them in a binder labeled "Boston area" and pass it around that way. Or merge the pdfs together at least... Not the most polished presentation format to make Amazon figure out how to present the Boston area as a whole to those within Amazon that aren't as familiar with the area.

But presentation is important, so are all these proposals in the compilation going to make sense when compiled together? If each municipal or private proposal stands on its own then likely half the proposals will have redundant information about the merits of the region. Are they at least coordinated in presentation format so the proposals work well together? Are stakeholders at Amazon going to have the patience to wade through proposals that weren't coordinated? Or are they just going to go with one of the other cities in the top ten that had its act together?

Sure Amazon can make up their own minds about which real estate they actually want, but to have such a disorganized approach where the City of Boston is competing with the Boston area instead of competing with Austin it is counterproductive.
 
Don't get all the whining either. Present multiple options and let Amazon choose. If Amazon tells Mahhty "yeah, we're really not into East Boston...tell us more about South Station" do you reaaaallly think he's going to insist on East Boston to them? As long as they proposal does a good job putting forward all the alternatives, then we're in good shape. People should be happy Boston actually has 4 sites to choose from. If this was Baltimore, where 9/10ths of the city is a dump, it would be much harder to find more than once place.
 
Rover said:
Don't get all the whining either. Present multiple options and let Amazon choose. If Amazon tells Mahhty "yeah, we're really not into East Boston...tell us more about South Station" do you reaaaallly think he's going to insist on East Boston to them? As long as they proposal does a good job putting forward all the alternatives, then we're in good shape. People should be happy Boston actually has 4 sites to choose from. If this was Baltimore, where 9/10ths of the city is a dump, it would be much harder to find more than once place.
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I think it is just a question of presentation. Sounds like the usual state/local/neighborhood/agency turf battles played out in the last few weeks from what disagreements have filtered out and I am hoping it isn't reflected in the physical proposals being incomplete on the one hand or confusingly redundant on the other hand.

And it is disheartening to hear that Curtatone's proposal was probably left to a separate proposal just because a lot of the supporting buildings might have crossed city lines.

Boston, Cambridge and the Boston area have a lot to offer together, but Boston alone doesn't work. It really takes Cambridge, Somerville and the entire metropolitan area along with Boston to make the case for Boston to be compelling.
 
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