[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

datadyne007 said:
NU Prof's Rendering Shows 'Visual Consequences' of Proposed Harbor Square

Screen-Shot-2014-11-12-at-5.24.35-PM1.png




http://bostinno.streetwise.co/2014/...bor-towers-residents-george-thrush-rendering/

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What I don't like is how this picture is being presented---Yes... a huge white block on a development parcel. This would make any development be presented as a negative factor.

Why not photo shop the original picture of the exterior of the proposed building to see how it reflects the surroundings and how it looks in the skyline? This is more of the truth not a couple of white blocks.

http://www.harborgarageproject.com/

I personally don't mind Harbor Towers development but seriously the 2 buildings look like they could be built for section 8 housing back in the 70's.
Don't forget the 3rd building was supposed to be the garage at 400ft
 
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

DZH22 said:
IP refinanced http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/r...refinances-500-million-for-international.html
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Deeper in debt.

The new loan replaces an existing $432 million mortgage that was due in November 2015.

http://citybizlist.com/article/218728/two-insurers-provide-500m-loan-on-bostons-international-place

Ten years ago,

.....A lawyer representing Tishman Speyer, R. Robert Popeo, said the company was not rejecting sound leases, just prudently watching its investment. At the auction of the International Place mortgage, ''Tishman didn't just bid to take over debt,'' he explained. ''The building had cash flow troubles,'' in part because an important tenant had left the building.

Without bankruptcy protection, Mr. Chiofaro's ''budget shows eventual default because he has no equity,'' Mr. Popeo added. ''Then Tishman would resolve issues with the owner or foreclose and become the owner.''

Mr. Chiofaro disputed his adversary's contention that he had no equity in the development. ''I don't think Tishman bought it because they thought it would be worth less than the $600 million,'' he said, referring to the $596 million Tishman paid for the financing.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/21/b...-extra-dose-of-rivalry-in-property-fight.html
 
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

TheRifleman said:
What I don't like is how this picture is being presented---Yes... a huge white block on a development parcel. This would make any development be presented as a negative factor.

Why not photo shop the original picture of the exterior of the proposed building to see how it reflects the surroundings and how it looks in the skyline? This is more of the truth not a couple of white blocks.

http://www.harborgarageproject.com/

I personally don't mind Harbor Towers development but seriously the 2 buildings look like they could be built for section 8 housing back in the 70's.
Click to expand...

This is about massing. It doesn't matter what the facade looks like or how much glass they use, the building will not be transparent, despite whatever they wish to show in shiny renders. There will be interior walls, so the building might as well be studied as a white mass which is why we do massing models.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I actually think the massing looks better in this picture than in the prior versions. From that angle, it's kind of like a mini WTC (the new one, not the Twin Towers).
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

TheRifleman said:
What I don't like is how this picture is being presented---Yes... a huge white block on a development parcel. This would make any development be presented as a negative factor.
Click to expand...

It's a dumb argument anyways. If you walk in either direction from where that rendering photo is taken, the Harbor Towers already block the view.

"We can block the view but you can't."

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.355...ata=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1svywlKtkOBDn5wf1dQL7Gbw!2e0
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Chiofaro publishes only one set of renders showing the elevations in a setting with the surrounding buildings, and that is for the east elevation (which also hides the Custom House tower)

05.jpg



AERIAL-02a.jpg



02.jpg


^^^ West elevation
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

The articles about the HT's opposition mention these towers being 650' and 550' tall. Is there any validity to those numbers?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

TheRifleman said:
What I don't like is how this picture is being presented---Yes... a huge white block on a development parcel. This would make any development be presented as a negative factor.

Why not photo shop the original picture of the exterior of the proposed building to see how it reflects the surroundings and how it looks in the skyline? This is more of the truth not a couple of white blocks.

http://www.harborgarageproject.com/

I personally don't mind Harbor Towers development but seriously the 2 buildings look like they could be built for section 8 housing back in the 70's.
Don't forget the 3rd building was supposed to be the garage at 400ft
Click to expand...

I had the same thought. This professor's drawing intentionally picks the one view that is somewhat iffy, then presents the buildings as something they aren't. It is a very dishonest statement to claim that his render represents the impact of the project.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

HenryAlan said:
I had the same thought. This professor's drawing intentionally picks the one view that is somewhat iffy, then presents the buildings as something they aren't. It is a very dishonest statement to claim that his render represents the impact of the project.
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It's part of a larger report/analysis that I'm looking forward to seeing. That was the only image given to the media so far.

I think it represents this project's impact extremely well. It's two giant, massive (in the sense of much mass) blobs right on the waterfront.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

datadyne007 said:
NU Prof's Rendering Shows 'Visual Consequences' of Proposed Harbor Square

Screen-Shot-2014-11-12-at-5.24.35-PM1.png
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I think the biggest revelation here is just how plump these towers are. Like JHT, from the edge they are skinny, but from most vantage points they are quite wide. Being a pair of slabs so close together, there is only about 20-30 degrees around the compass where these don't have the same mass as a single fat mountain of a building.

Instead of the usual fighting over height, if anything we should hope the conversation steers toward slimming these puppies down. If Ch 91 (or whatever it is) requires 50% open space, then maybe a single slender tower (or pair, i suppose) can satisfy that requirement and ease the complaints of the HT residents, ease the complaints of the Greenway shadow fear mongers, and ease the complaints of Customs House view protectors.

Obviously slimmer translates to less space and less income for Chiofaro. I'm not sure what the public can offer Chiofaro to get him to forgo all that money.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

fattony said:
I think the biggest revelation here is just how plump these towers are. Like JHT, from the edge they are skinny, but from most vantage points they are quite wide. Being a pair of slabs so close together, there is only about 20-30 degrees around the compass where these don't have the same mass as a single fat mountain of a building.

Instead of the usual fighting over height, if anything we should hope the conversation steers toward slimming these puppies down. If Ch 91 (or whatever it is) requires 50% open space, then maybe a single slender tower (or pair, i suppose) can satisfy that requirement and ease the complaints of the HT residents, ease the complaints of the Greenway shadow fear mongers, and ease the complaints of Customs House view protectors.

Obviously slimmer translates to less space and less income for Chiofaro. I'm not sure what the public can offer Chiofaro to get him to forgo all that money.
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Bingo. This is the crux of my argument. They need a diet. I'm not opposed to height here. I'm opposed to giant hulking masses/a wall on the waterfront.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I personally don't mind the massing---

The Greenway was supposed to provide 4 exhibits on each of the parcel. Naturally not one of them was built.

Why not let Chiofaro expand onto one of the Greenway parcels with his project or let him build something around 700 or 800 ft" which would slim down the project with the research and ok from the FAA?

Just ideas thrown out there.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

TheRifleman said:
Why not let Chiofaro expand onto one of the Greenway parcels with his project or let him build something around 700 or 800 ft" which would slim down the project with the research and ok from the FAA?
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Because the FAA already did the research and recommended a height limit 150' lower than Chiofaro's buildings. He hasn't said how he plans to override that.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

HenryAlan said:
I had the same thought. This professor's drawing intentionally picks the one view that is somewhat iffy, then presents the buildings as something they aren't. It is a very dishonest statement to claim that his render represents the impact of the project.
Click to expand...

We are now more than five years in, and yes a developer should put the best face on a proposed project, but in all of this time, Chiofaro has yet to produce, to my recollection, a single render of how his various proposals would look from, say, Rowe's Wharf, or Columbus Park, or City Hall. And I'm not talking about massing models. There's a reason for that.

The only full size renders that have ever been produced are those of the view from about the water taxi pier at Logan. Which, as everyone knows, is a favorite destination of Bostonians.

If Chiofaro isn't going to produce renders from different perspectives, somebody else will. And probably not to his advantage.
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Rifleman, Chiofaro can't build on the Greenway. The Greenway was created as part of the environmental mitigation for the Big Dig. His original proposal presumed that the BRA was going to give him land to help him build, expand his lot on either the east or south (can't remember which). That's seems to be off the table, now.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

datadyne007 said:
Bingo. This is the crux of my argument. They need a diet. I'm not opposed to height here. I'm opposed to giant hulking masses/a wall on the waterfront.
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Density is good. you are arguing against density.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

coleslaw said:
Density is good. you are arguing against density.
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Architecture, especially on such a sensitive site, is about the balance of density and massing/urban design. It is not solely about being dense just to be dense.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

datadyne007 said:
Architecture, especially on such a sensitive site, is about the balance of density and massing/urban design. It is not solely about being dense just to be dense.
Click to expand...

And I don't think these buildings are. If they were it would be a rectangular building covering the whole lot. There is design to them and yes they are fat but is fat that bad? They are in no semblance bland (especially at ground level).
 
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