[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

[Arlington]

Fair enough ... but then at least put a glass box on the roof and let me experience the pleasant relief of breaking through the surface, taking a deep breath of oxygen, and paying $12 for a coffee and a snack for the kid.

Yes. Failed design premise. Turns out, humans , as savanna-and-forest creatures (or city people), don't like the bottom of the deep Ocean, and it is a shame they had to build a whole building to find this out. We like snorkeling in shallow clear water; more like Finding Nemo (and you can own the Blu-ray for $30...just 10% more an adult admission).

That they can't even manage real sunlight atop their renovated central ocean tank is a huge turnoff (and the huge lights are no doubt a carbon footprint stomp) The best enviro-plaudit one can offer is that they recycled an old concrete box for reuse as an old concrete box.

 

[Lrfox]

Fair enough ... but then at least put a glass box on the roof and let me experience the pleasant relief of breaking through the surface, taking a deep breath of oxygen, and paying $12 for a coffee and a snack for the kid.

New England Aquarium was designed by the same group that designed National Aquarium in Baltimore and it shows. The younger National Aquarium, however, does a much better job of not making one feel like they're suffocating (drowning?) in a concrete box. Maybe they learned from their mistakes in Boston?

 

[TheRifleman]

So most of us on this Board agree that the NEA Development is dark and decrypted. So why is Management or NEA Board not using this Harbor Garage development as an opportunity to rebuild at this point and support all development why jumping on board with an opportunity.

They could raise enough money through fundraising, taxbreaks and other city incentives along with offering the developer incentives.

Something is not right with the people who run the Aquarium if you ask me.

 

[type001]

Back in June, we were told that Chiofaro was busy seeing what he could build under the then newly-issued city's guidelines for the site. Uncharacteristically for Chiofaro, there has been silence ever since.

The Aquarium's consultant's study antedates the city's guidelines, as the consultant didn't study the effects of less gsf for the site. Thus, this seems like something the Aquarium was sitting on for months, and rather than have it collect more dust on the shelf, it is now tossing it out there.

By doing that, this suggests to me that Chiofaro isn't moving forward on development of the site anytime soon, perhaps not until the Harbor Towers easement with respect to garage parking spaces comes to its end date, five or six years from now IIRC.

I'd put the odds at better than 50-50 that Chiofaro never develops the site at all. This development cycle seems likely to pass him by.
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In looking at Google maps, the map has northbound 95 passing under a corner of the site. If this is true, this would complicate his original plan to bury the garage.

I have to agree with all of this. It is looking very unlikely that Chiofaro is going to be able to pull anything off.

 

[TheRifleman]

I have to agree with all of this. It is looking very unlikely that Chiofaro is going to be able to pull anything off.

Probably True: So in the end of the Ex-Mayor Menino & the corrupt BRA rein ---the Ex-Mayor gives unlimited tax breaks to his friends on the Seaport projects then leaves a parking garage instead of having a grand vision for a better public Greenway for the people.

What a fucking asshole.

If I was the developer--- I would engrave the GARAGE a gift from the city of BOSTON ex Mayor--what a vision for this site.

Ex-Mayor Menino RIP.

 

[navigator4]

Wow, the arrogance of the Aquarium is unbelievable. They don't want the garage redeveloped because there won't be enough parking for their customers! Chiofaro should ban Aquarium parkers from the garage and let the Aquarium suffer.

 

[navigator4]

Respectfully disagree (as I think you are referring to Harbor Tower residents). The vast majority of rich people "in Boston" either don't live in Boston (at all, or on a full time basis) or don't really give a hoot who their city councillor or even Mayor is. You have some strong neighborhood coalitions downtown - like the Beacon Hill Civic Association - but they are all swamped by voters in Dorchester, JP, Roxbury, West Roxbury and South Boston. Each one of these non-core neighborhoods have much more sway than downtown. If it were the other way around then Walsh wouldn't be mayor. Connolly would.

The folks at the Harbor Towers are political paper tigers. Their biggest claim to fame will be delaying and slightly shrinking what eventually will get built. Most of the condo owners there rent out the units as it is. Walsh is pushing this through (remember this project was basically dead until Menino actually died) and why wouldn't he - he owes his position to the building trade unions who would like to keep the development pipeline as full as possible.

Would anyone bet against this project NOT getting city tax breaks? I wouldn't.

Sorry, but the HT people have MONEY, which is what talks in politics. They vote with their cash much more than people do in JP, WR, etc.

 

[tobyjug]

Get a 60 inch plus ultra high definition tv, and zoos and aquariums becom obsolete. Nothing sadder than watching a wild animal lose its mind in captivity.

If they want to run a science lab and rescue center, great. But no need to jail Skippy the seal or Sparky the dolphin.

 

[type001]

^Damn, you nailed it.

 

[bayvillagebrahmin]

Thank you Aquarium, for supporting maybe the biggest rip-off of a garage in Boston, and also one of the ugliest areas in the city (Garage, Aquarium, Harbor Towers). Pray to god that they develop this with a 600 foot tower and knock down the garage. Aquarium doesn't own the garage, pay up and build your own.

 

[George_Apley]

The Harbor Towers Garage isn't even one of NEA's preferred garages. They don't validate parking for it.

 

[Brad Plaid]

So much hate for Harbor Towers. Yes, the suburban lawn/swimming pool are a real slap at urbanism (and should be rethought) but this was built at a dramatically different time and under very different circumstances than today. It took nerve to make big investments in Boston back then, especially next to a malevolent, polluting highway. The towers themselves I think are quite elegant and nicely understated.

 

[617]

Weren't they originally supposed to be public housing?

 

[tangent]

Why is this thread even active? Nothing is getting built at the garage until the agreements for parking spaces run out sometime in the 20s. It just isn't ecomical until then since they can't go tall and building underground parking is going to be very expensive.

 

[stellarfun]

Why is this thread even active? Nothing is getting built at the garage until the agreements for parking spaces run out sometime in the 20s. It just isn't ecomical until then since they can't go tall and building underground parking is going to be very expensive.

All this fulminating about the NEA, as if NEA is going to kill any project on the Harbor Garage site.

IIRC, the Harbor Garage was built on BRA-owned land, designed by Pei (or his associates) in conjunction with the building of Harbor Towers. A certain number of spaces in the garage were reserved, through an easement / covenant for Harbor Towers residents. That easement ends in the early 2020s.

It may have been that the BRA set other conditions when they conveyed title, e.g., a garage with a set number of spaces is to be located on the site in perpetuity. I don't know whether that is the case, but I doubt Chiofaro would propose creating an underground garage with a similar number of spaces at an extraordinary construction cost because said underground garage would generate a great return.

The consultant to the City of Cambridge on the Volpe Center said that a developer spending $280 million for a new Volpe would be pushing at the margins of profitability and that developer has several million gsf to work with, --not the less than a million gsf that Chiofaro is being given. Chiofaro paid $155 million for the site, and indicated several years ago that it would cost $180 million to bury the garage. That's $335 million in sunk costs for 1.3 acres.

The Boston Common garage, with almost as many spaces as the HT Aquarium garage had total gross revenue of $11.1 million in the fiscal year ending 2013.

Either the city of Cambridge's consultant is all wet, or there is no financially feasible way for Chiofaro to proceed with his project with a buried replacement garage. If that's the case, as surely as the sun rises in the east, the garage will be a podium for something built on top.

All the NEA bashing, and all the HT bashing are largely irrelevant to the financial bottom line for any Chiofaro proposal.

 

[TheRifleman]

If that's the case, as surely as the sun rises in the east, the garage will be a podium for something built on top.

.

The real bottom line is if this ends up being the case for the development on the site.
This is what we get for electing leaders that are uneducated and this is why this country is Bankrupt.

Real businessmen do not move forward unless it makes financial sense.

The Greenway has so much potential not burying that Garage is SINFUL to Bostonians. Menino Legacy (Let me give my friends all tax breaks and then keep a garage on the Greenway) Great job.

I really don't know how anybody could justify leaving a garage on this location a good idea.

 

[timsox6]

No big surprise here: Harbor Garage Project Hits Impasse.

 

[stellarfun]

From the Globe article.

Don being pushed to the sidewalk, if not under the bus.

Boston officials said Tuesday that they have hit an impasse with developer Don Chiofaro about his proposal to build two skyscrapers on the downtown waterfront and have begun to negotiate directly with his financial backers.

The Boston Redevelopment Authority is in “active conversations” with Prudential Real Estate Investors, which owns a majority stake in the controversial Harbor Garage project next to the New England Aquarium, BRA director Brian Golden said in a letter to neighbors and nearby civic leaders.

 

[BosDevelop]

How can a 600 foot tower and nearly a million square feet not be enough for Don here? Does he really want to go that much higher/bigger?

 

[fattony]

How can a 600 foot tower and nearly a million square feet not be enough for Don here? Does he really want to go that much higher/bigger?

This isn't an empty lot nor a dilapidated, condemned structure (like the Winthrop garage). The aquarium garage generates a lot of revenue today, as-is. Tearing down the garage and burying it costs a fortune in construction and in lost revenue during construction. The new underground garage will produce the same exact revenue as the concrete hulk does today. So before you build anything that adds value to the site you are X millions of dollars in the hole.

Whatever building goes on top of the new garage has to not only pay for itself with decent ROI, it has to absorb all the costs of demolition, re-construction, and lost revenue of the garage. That is a tall order (sorry, I couldn't resist).