[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

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*sigh*

You ever put two cell phones close together, put them on speaker, and yell? That's this thread, an endless feedback loop of white noise.

I'll add to it, I feel like pushing some buttons:
The pool's not that bad ;-p
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chrisbrat, welcome. Please post more.
 
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^^when i think of Harbor Towers, 133 Fed, all the Rudolf crap, State Services, Church of Christ Scientist tower + plaza, i think of Slim Pickens ridin' her in... :)
 
PM me if there is any real new news on this. I'll unlock the thread.
 
This is real news, I guess. Behave please.

Developer Don Chiofaro scales back Boston tower plan
Hoping to jump-start a long-delayed project, developer Don Chiofaro is ready to dial back his ambition and build a tower nearly one-third smaller than the one he first proposed for a site next to the New England Aquarium.

Chiofaro told the Globe that he’ll push forward with his bid to put a skyscraper on the site of the Harbor Garage, and to do it within proposed zoning rules that he fought for years to loosen without success. It would still be a billion-dollar-plus project, a bookend to the International Place towers he built in the 1980s, but not quite as grand as he envisioned.

Boston Globe, Sept 19, 2016
 
I have two comments.

1.) How do you know what something will cost if you haven't yet designed it?

2.) Don Chiofaro has lost weight. I hope, and I mean this sincerely,. that he is in good health.
 
Article says he's already spent $8m on various designs. I would assume at that point you have at least a ballpark figure of what several iterations of the project is going to cost based on adjusting the various metrics.
 
TALLER TALLER TALLER TALLER. WE DON'T HAVE ANYWHERE LEFT TO BUILD. THE ENTIRE CITY OF BOSTON WILL EXPERIENCE ECONOMIC COLLAPSE WITHOUT THIS DEVELOPMENT. GE WILL LEAVE!
 
Can we change the title of this thread? This is the Harbor Garage parcel. The aquarium has zero rights to this garage.
 
I have two comments.

1.) How do you know what something will cost if you haven't yet designed it?

The underground garage wedged between the ocean and the tunnels seems like potentially a big open ended money pit.

Maybe the developer could just write a check to partially pay for new Sullivan Square and JFK/UMass garages on MBTA property and then go with a smaller garage on site.

Either way the city should insist on some guarantees to prevent the big hole in the ground and stalled project scenario. It seems fairly predictable that they demo the garage start digging and "suddenly" realize it is crazy expensive to do a large underground garage here and spend the next decade bickering.
 
The underground garage wedged between the ocean and the tunnels seems like potentially a big open ended money pit.

Maybe the developer could just write a check to partially pay for new Sullivan Square and JFK/UMass garages on MBTA property and then go with a smaller garage on site.

Either way the city should insist on some guarantees to prevent the big hole in the ground and stalled project scenario. It seems fairly predictable that they demo the garage start digging and "suddenly" realize it is crazy expensive to do a large underground garage here and spend the next decade bickering.

Somewhere in the bowels of this 125+ page thread is the estimate of how much it would cost to construct an underground garage. I'm not searching for the number -- which was Chiofaro's estimate and given over five years ago -- but my recollection is that the cost of acquiring the garage from InterPark in 2007 (about $155 million) and the cost of the replacement garage was $330 million.

If he builds 900,000 square feet at $750 a square foot, he can get to his billion dollar project.
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It remains unclear as to why a 1,400 car garage must continue to be on this site.

And there is the no small matter of the HT property easements in the garage, which I believe are extinguished around 2020 (a 50 year easement?). Without providing an alternate parking location for the HT easement holders, HT can delay the start of construction until the easement ends.
 
The underground garage wedged between the ocean and the tunnels seems like potentially a big open ended money pit.

Unquestionably. Super Engineering for sure.

Somewhere in the bowels of this 125+ page thread is the estimate of how much it would cost to construct an underground garage. ...my recollection is that the cost of acquiring the garage from InterPark in 2007 (about $155 million) and the cost of the replacement garage was $330 million.

Got to be close to that or a bit higher.

Either way the city should insist on some guarantees to prevent the big hole in the ground and stalled project scenario. It seems fairly predictable that they demo the garage start digging and "suddenly" realize it is crazy expensive to do a large underground garage here....

This is precisely why they should give him 150,000-200,000 sq ft more.

And there is the no small matter of the HT property easements in the garage, which I believe are extinguished around 2020 (a 50 year easement?). Without providing an alternate parking location for the HT easement holders, HT can delay the start of construction until the easement ends.

If Don can find a workable design, this project will break ground on a shorter timetable.

It remains unclear as to why a 1,400 car garage must continue to be on this site.

This has obviously been covered, and i'm still unclear why the City insists so many spaces need to continue to be located here. Harbor Towers residents should have the opportunity to purchase parking spaces in the new garage. but, the idea that the Aquarium must have all that parking at Central Wharf seems questionable. Since most families use the garage on the weekends, you could just as easily have them park at South Station or the Seaport and shuttle them over.
 
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And there is the no small matter of the HT property easements in the garage, which I believe are extinguished around 2020 (a 50 year easement?). Without providing an alternate parking location for the HT easement holders, HT can delay the start of construction until the easement ends.

Concerning this issue. I never understood why Chiofaro/Pru did not purchase the Intercontinental Garage when it went up for bid.

Between IP and IC parking he might have been able to ease the situation on the parking easement not sure by what %.

http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/r...l_garage_gets_prepd_for_possible_auction.html
 
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It remains unclear as to why a 1,400 car garage must continue to be on this site.

The future garage will be smaller. Less than 1000 spaces.
 
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Unquestionably. Super Engineering for sure.

Really? There have been like 10 of these dug in the seaport in the last 3 years. yes the artery is there, but its not deep in that part of town. And I think you'd rather have a 20-year old artery wall as a neighbor than some of the wicked old shit that you may have seen around the town here and there.

If you really want to impress me, keep the current garage in place while you dig the new one below it. Otherwise, i think this is just another hole in the ground.
 
Either way the city should insist on some guarantees to prevent the big hole in the ground and stalled project scenario. It seems fairly predictable that they demo the garage start digging and "suddenly" realize it is crazy expensive to do a large underground garage here and spend the next decade bickering.

The garage is source of cash flow. It is not going to be demolished until and unless funding for the project is secured. I don't think we end up with a Millennium DTX hole at this site.
 
Can this be done?

Back in the day, Chiofaro's partner, Ted Oatis (who died several years ago) discussed a plan in which half the existing garage would be demolished, excavated down, and an underground garage built on that half. The new half would begin operation, and the other half of the garage would be demolished, excavated, and rebuilt below grade.

That idea seemed to last about as long as the proposal to built/lease a huge floating parking garage, and use that in the interim.

According to Google maps, the northbound tunnel wall is either very close to, or under, the west property line of the garage property. The Commonwealth almost certainly will insist he keep his distance when he excavates, and this will shrink the available area for an underground garage.

Let's make some assumptions. Let's assume because of the tunnel, his lot, for the purposes of an underground garage, is 43,000 sq ft.

Of the 43,000 sq ft, let's assume that 13,000 sq ft is reserved to support the tower, including the core(s).

Let's assume a short span underground parking garage will require 350 sq ft per parking stall. (The 350 sq ft includes lanes and ramps.)

30,000 / 350 = 85 parking spaces per parking level.

12 parking levels would give him 1,020 spaces.

12 parking levels would also be about 120 feet deep.

At 120 feet, the hydrostatic pressure at the bottom would be about four bar, or nearly 70 pounds per square inch. (Assumes that Boston blue clay acts similarly at depth at the water's edge as water.)

The Intercontinental Hotel garage is also deep, but the cost of the excavation, and the walls was a Big Dig cost (Vent Building 3), where money was almost no object. The excavation went to 90 feet, the garage has 350 spaces.
 
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