[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

And I think something is very fundamentally wrong when the govt's official position is that they don't care about private investment being able to turn a profit. That should be one of it's main focuses, creating enviorments where profits can be made and then taxed. Obviously things need to be within reason, and I think this proposal is.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Love this quote from CommonWealth magazine:

?It?s a lot of noise,? Menino said during an interview at City Hall. ?It isn?t about making money. It?s about how it affects the city. We have rules and regulations for the Greenway, and one person can?t change those rules and regulations.?

Um, Mr Mayor? You change the rules ALL THE TIME.

Exactly. Zoning is specifically set up in this city in such a way that the Mayor has to change to rules on a project-by-project basis in order for virtually anything to be built. The BRA has publicly admitted this. Boston is deliberately under-zoned so that the approval process can be used as a leveraging tool to "start the negotiation"--in other words, to bend developers to the mayor's will.

I think it's great that Chiofaro is helping to finally shine a spotlight on this ugly practice.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I may have an opportunity to chat with Menino Friday evening. What are the short list talking points? Keep in mind that it will need to be a respectful exchange due to the circumstances of the event where we'll rub elbows.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Exactly. Zoning is specifically set up in this city in such a way that the Mayor has to change to rules on a project-by-project basis in order for virtually anything to be built. The BRA has publicly admitted this. Boston is deliberately under-zoned so that the approval process can be used as a leveraging tool to "start the negotiation"--in other words, to bend developers to the mayor's will.

I think it's great that Chiofaro is helping to finally shine a spotlight on this ugly practice.

The practice is called FRAUD. The reality is Menino has given other developers taxpayers money, Liberty Mutual, W-Hotel, Columbus Ave ect. Then the developers give Menino money back. So these developers are not even paying for the kickbacks. WE ARE. This is real bad what is going on. What the hell is the FBI doing these days?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I may have an opportunity to chat with Menino Friday evening. What are the short list talking points? Keep in mind that it will need to be a respectful exchange due to the circumstances of the event where we'll rub elbows.

Maybe you can ask about his position in terms of access to the Greenway.

He said previously:

"I don't think that's right. The taxpayers paid to create the Greenway, and they want it to be accessible."

Perhaps you can find a respectful way of asking why bringing thousands of residents and office workers to this site, along with devoting another $50 million to create/improve parks would restrict accessibility to the Greenway when all reason would imply otherwise.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Perpetual Darkness....

I usually save the term "riot" for only the funniest of the funny things I hear, and that sir, is a riot.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Maybe you can ask about his position in terms of access to the Greenway.

Thanks. He ended up not showing due to illness. I did see him briefly yesterday at another event and I must say, he looked terrible. Unfortunately, it wasn't the sort of thing conducive to an involved chat.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Banker & Tradesman - May 3, 2010
Chiofaro May Expand Harbor Garage
Developer Says He Could Add 600 Cars To Structure He Wants To Tear Down

By Paul McMorrow

Banker & Tradesman Staff Writer

Today

If Don Chiofaro can't put a new building next to Harbor Towers, he says he'll settle for three more stories of parking.Ratcheting up the stakes in an already acrimonious battle with City Hall, developer Don Chiofaro is saying he could add 600 parking spots to the Harbor Garage complex he owns in partnership with Prudential Real Estate Investors.

Chiofaro is locked in a battle with Boston Mayor Thomas Menino, the Boston Redevelopment Authority and the trustees of Harbor Towers over his plans to replace the Harbor Garage with a $900 million, 1.5-million-square-foot mixed-use complex that would soar 625 feet high.

The BRA is close to signing off on guidelines that would re-zone the site, which sits between Boston Harbor and the Rose Kennedy Greenway, to a maximum height of 200 feet. Chiofara has repeatedly said a 200-foot project would not be economically feasible, and that the new Greenway zoning would force him to leave the urban renewal-era Harbor Garage standing along the Greenway.

Chiofaro held an unprecedented press conference last week. He released a report by Boston appraisers Byrne McKinney & Assoc. that argued a 200-foot project on the site would not be economically feasible for 67 years. Flanked by stone-faced ironworkers in hard hats, Chiofaro attacked Menino and the BRA?s Greenway study, while calling for a new round of dialogue and compromise.

He also moved beyond just saying strict height limits would force him to treat the garage as a real estate venture, not as a redevelopment site.

?The fact is, the garage structure can hold another 600 cars, another three levels of parking,? Chiofaro said. ?It?ll go from a 1,400-car garage to a 2,000-car garage. It makes money now, and it?ll make more money later.?

The Harbor Garage?s finances are not public, but Chiofaro has said recently it makes an annual profit of $8.5 million. Chiofaro and Prudential paid $153 million for the garage.

Chiofaro said cramming more cars on top of the concrete monolith was not his ?first, second, or third choice.?

?It?s actually a very bad idea,? he added. ?I hope we?re not left with that choice. But it is what it is. We?ll deal with that and all the other decisions we have to make when we see where this process ends.?

Last week?s press conference, and the talk of adding three stories of parking to the Harbor Garage, marked the latest turn in a bitter, years-long clash between the Chiofaro Co. and City Hall. Chiofaro has accused Menino of playing politics with the BRA?s Greenway development guidelines, while Menino has cast Chiofaro as a developer who would destroy the Greenway, and Boston?s waterfront, for profit.

The threat to add 600 cars to the garage represents an escalation from the developer?s previous worst-case no-build scenario, which had been to simply leave the Harbor Garage as-is.

?Unlike Columbus Center, which put all that money into it and got nothing, and unlike Filene?s, which put all that money into it and got nothing out of it, we have a cash-flowing garage,? Chiofaro said last week. ?So this process we?ve gone through, while we?ve spent some money, we?ve had cash flow, and we?ve lived within our means. At the end of the day, if nobody wants to do anything, we?ll keep the garage, add a few cars.?

He paused, smiled, and added, ?And maybe put a slots parlor on top.?

Tom Palmer, a spokesman for neighboring Harbor Towers, said, ?We're glad to hear Mr. Chiofaro is thinking about alternatives to his unworkable development scheme, but we're sure he can do much better than that.?

Three additional levels of parking would fit within the new to-be-approved 200-foot waterfront zoning height, although it would likely be subject to city and state permitting, as well as the EPA?s downtown parking freeze. The Massachusetts Convention Center Authority?s planned expansion of the Boston Common parking garage may already put the city past the number of spots allowed under the parking freeze.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

That's some wonderful diplomacy right there! And Tom Palmer should indeed be scared.

As far as I can reason, though, it's a bluff. The garage makes money now, but it's far more valuable as a major development in the future - even if that future has to wait 5 years for the political and economic climate to change. Donny wouldn't sacrifice the future value of this parcel for 600 parking spots. And, of course, if he does build three more stories, there isn't any more game to be played with Menino and the BRA. It will be an ongoing threat, though.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

He's not bluffing. Don is an incredibly smart man. Seeing how he cannot work around the system, he knows that as long as he stays in the 200 ft limit, he can do whatever he wants and what he wants to do is build an additional 6 stories to block out the path from the RKG to the ocean as a BIG FUCK YOU to the mayor and the people complaining while making money out of it. I'm supporting him. If the city doesn't get a pathway and gem because the government and its people think the developers are greedy, then show them real greed and build an ugly money making structure for all of them to see.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

It sounds like he can't do whatever he wants based on the last paragraph in the Banker & Tradesmen article:

"Three additional levels of parking would fit within the new to-be-approved 200-foot waterfront zoning height, although it would likely be subject to city and state permitting, as well as the EPA?s downtown parking freeze. The Massachusetts Convention Center Authority?s planned expansion of the Boston Common parking garage may already put the city past the number of spots allowed under the parking freeze."


I'm surprised that anything has been built in this city with all of these restrictions.

I'm glad Chiaforo is standing up to the Mayor.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Look on the possible bright side.

If he is doing all that construction on the garage, it may not be that much extra to reclad it. There is already retail on the ground floor and with a little remodeling it could be some nice retail. i.e. bump out to the edge of the current overhang, kick out the Aquarium offices on the waterfront side and put in a nice restaurant with outdoor seating in the summer, narrow the entrance to the garage. He could make it a nice little building from a street level perspective.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

The waterfront side of the garage was originally built for retail or restaurant use. The Aquarium offices are there only because those uses did not succeed on that side.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

As an ex-Bostonian and a sometime visitor, this garage is the one place I always come. It provides me with an expensive parking place in a primo location. It also makes me feel not so bad about trashing Boston's urbanism through patronage. The building may not be beautiful, but both its massing and its ground floor treatment are as good as you can expect in this (alas) benighted city.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Points for honesty...?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

A total red herring by Chiofaro. I like the fact that he's standing up to Mumbles but the threat of adding 3 floors to the garage stretches credibility. The idea that the garage could handle a live load 50% larger than what exists is silly. Why would anyone overbuild a reinforced concrete structure like that?
And he'd still need to go through permitting which would get tied up in the fact that he:
1)Doesn't meet chapter 91 requirements.
2)Exceeds his FAR.
3)Exceeds the cap on parking spots in Boston.
If he's going to spend years trying to get permits for a non-conforming development, I have to believe he'll choose a tower at that location.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I'm pretty sure this tactic is to spite the mayor and the NIMBYs.
 
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