[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

AmericanFolkLegend said:
A total red herring by Chiofaro. I like the fact that he's standing up to Mumbles but the threat of adding 3 floors to the garage stretches credibility. The idea that the garage could handle a live load 50% larger than what exists is silly. Why would anyone overbuild a reinforced concrete structure like that?
And he'd still need to go through permitting which would get tied up in the fact that he:
1)Doesn't meet chapter 91 requirements.
2)Exceeds his FAR.
3)Exceeds the cap on parking spots in Boston.
If he's going to spend years trying to get permits for a non-conforming development, I have to believe he'll choose a tower at that location.
Click to expand...

Garages are frequently built to hold extra floors.


The one problem is the downtown parking cap. However....

" although it would likely be subject to city and state permitting, as well as the EPA?s downtown parking freeze. The Massachusetts Convention Center Authority?s planned expansion of the Boston Common parking garage may already put the city past the number of spots allowed under the parking freeze."

Thats completely false, the cap does not include south Boston, just downtown. Thats why the fenway development is planned with an unreasonably large garage.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

^^How does South Boston figure into this?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

But the Boston Common Parking Garage, which is the Convention Authority controls (for whatever reason), and is seeking to expand is within parking cap.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Chiofaro is so full of it, I am beginning to wonder if he's losing it. He seems to ignore or be unaware of some basic realities of building in Boston.

One reality is that there is a cap on the number of parking spaces in three sections of Boston, one of which is downtown. The city maintains a bank of spaces that it can allocate to future developments while still adhering to the overall cap. According to the city, there are currently 200 spaces in the bank. Spaces get added to the bank as parking garages/lots get demolished/converted and all the spaces previously used for parking aren't used for the new project. Spaces get withdrawn from the bank as a new project needs them, but new projects get few spaces, because there are so few spaces in the bank.

http://www.cityofboston.gov/environment/airpollution/parkingfreezes.asp

And, the freeze applies to South Boston and East Boston, too.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

^^According to your link South and East Boston each have an independent cap. The Southie bank is currently at ~2000 spaces (per your link). But Chioaro garage is covered under the Downtown cap which currently has, as you say, ~200 spaces available.
So yeah, he's still screwed.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Does anyone else think it's silly to have a parking cap while simultaneously having a minimum parking space requirement on new developments?

I think we'd be far better off if zoning completely divorced itself from parking.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Garages are frequently built to hold extra floors.
Click to expand...

Can you think of a single example of a garage that was overbuilt to the tune of 50% of it's live load (and that overbuild provided for a building that would exceed as of right FAR). Not trying to be antagonistic, but I've been in construction for a long time and I've never heard of that.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Bravo Don...nice to see someone who has the position to make the papers fight against the imbecilic status quo of urban design and development in Boston.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

The Alewife T station garage was built to allow addition of more parking levels, but for reasons I don't know, the expansion has never happened.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

GO FOR THE GOLD!!!

and if you dont get it, just make the building the ugliest damn thing in the State.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

statler said:
^^According to your link South and East Boston each have an independent cap. The Southie bank is currently at ~2000 spaces (per your link). But Chioaro garage is covered under the Downtown cap which currently has, as you say, ~200 spaces available.
So yeah, he's still screwed.
Click to expand...

So you buy a private parking garage for a 155million then the city actually tells you what you can and can't do with your garage? So why bother doing business in a communist society. He can't build higher than 200ft, he can't add an extra 600 spots to the garage. How do you make your money back? What?s next the state officials are going to say just give us the property we will build whatever we want on it.
I really did not realize politicians can basically bankrupt anybody's private project due to regulations.

One of my favorite quotes is, ?Give a man a fish and
you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you
feed him for life.? Today in order to teach a man to
fish, you need two fishing licenses, a state boat
sticker, OSHA approved life jackets, EPA approved
weights and hooks, you pay a park fee, obtain a fire
permit to cook the fish and an EPA permit to dispose
of the waste. Thanks to the government, fish you
catch costs 8 times as much as the fish you purchase
in the supermarket, caught overseas.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

^^Government works on the principle of "Your right to swing a fist stops at my face" writ large.

Your freedom to do what you want on your own property is somewhat limited by the impact it has on surrounding properties.

See also: Social Contract
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

TheRifleman said:
So why bother doing business in a communist society.
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No offense Rifleman (note, this will probably offend you)... that is one of the most ignorant things i have ever heard. Just because there are regulations, does not mean it is a communist society. The issue of communism (or more accurately totalitarianism, which you are referencing) is how the decisions are made. You may have to get a license and a permit, but if that is the rule established by the freely elected leaders in a true public interest.

I have no problem with you arguing on excessive regulation, or if some of it is truly necessary. I actually agree with you in most cases. I just hate when people reference that they are living in a communist society because they aren't allow to throw a grenade in Boston harbor to catch a bass. /rant
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

choo said:
No offense Rifleman (note, this will probably offend you)... that is one of the most ignorant things i have ever heard. Just because there are regulations, does not mean it is a communist society. The issue of communism (or more accurately totalitarianism, which you are referencing) is how the decisions are made. You may have to get a license and a permit, but if that is the rule established by the freely elected leaders in a true public interest.

I have no problem with you arguing on excessive regulation, or if some of it is truly necessary. I actually agree with you in most cases. I just hate when people reference that they are living in a communist society because they aren't allow to throw a grenade in Boston harbor to catch a bass. /rant
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Choo nothing offends me. I always respect other people's views. Maybe communist was extreme. Maybe I should have used Fascism.
"but if that is the rule established by the freely elected leaders in a true public interest."
The freely elected leaders these days are being elected in a tainted system.

When you have our Mayor who is calling on the Non-profits to start paying their share of taxes then giving tax breaks to companies like Liberty Mutual, or the W-Hotel which just filed bankruptcy. I fine this process illegal. Boston can generate plenty of business and money from the private sectors. Why is the city getting involved in private luxury condos? Maybe W-Hotel should have priced the condos cheaper. Maybe they just paid too much for the site.

The Mayor should have nothing to do with the process of development in this city. The BRA should be an independent organization that works only with Neighborhoods and developers. The question is why is the MAYOR even involved in this planning and processing? Is he some architectural genius?
We have had the biggest real estate boom in history. What has really changed for Boston skyline to make it a world class city? The only positives aspects out of the boom were Cambridge with the Biotech building boom. Have you seen downtown these days? Summer St. Looks like a ghetto.
Fan Pier is architectural nightmare. Columbus St. speaks for itself.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

found5dollar said:
GO FOR THE GOLD!!!

and if you dont get it, just make the building the ugliest damn thing in the State.
Click to expand...

I had this same thought. He should paint each floor a separate color, or have it be alternating rows of dark brown and beige. And maybe apply some murals on top of that color scheme, like huge flowers.

Someone would probably like it, though, and we'd be stuck looking at it forever.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I'll never understand rooting for people to trash our city in order to score cheap political points.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

TheRifleman said:
When you have our Mayor who is calling on the Non-profits to start paying their share of taxes then giving tax breaks to companies like Liberty Mutual, or the W-Hotel which just filed bankruptcy. I fine this process illegal. Boston can generate plenty of business and money from the private sectors. Why is the city getting involved in private luxury condos? Maybe W-Hotel should have priced the condos cheaper. Maybe they just paid too much for the site.

The Mayor should have nothing to do with the process of development in this city. The BRA should be an independent organization that works only with Neighborhoods and developers. The question is why is the MAYOR even involved in this planning and processing? Is he some architectural genius?
We have had the biggest real estate boom in history. What has really changed for Boston skyline to make it a world class city? The only positives aspects out of the boom were Cambridge with the Biotech building boom. Have you seen downtown these days? Summer St. Looks like a ghetto.
Fan Pier is architectural nightmare. Columbus St. speaks for itself.
Click to expand...

I largely agree with you on all of these points. The Mayor in this city has become too powerful for its own good. I think there is a place for subsidies and tax breaks to encourage development (I think its a fact of doing business now a days, because if you don't offer it, NYC, Chicago, or China will)

Government is responsible to facilitate good business, not be a good business. The city should have zoning that encourages private investment, livable, and dynamic urban spaces. It's too bad that it has just become whatever the mayor things is pretty and will be a good place for his statue.

Also, I have memorial day weekend in the pool for when Don C. renames the garage the "Mayor Thomas Menino Memorial Garage"
 
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