[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown
- Status
Shepard
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2009
- Messages
- 3,518
- Reaction score
- 66
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
I support the height too, but please admit to yourself that no part of this design concept is being built towards the Greenway. Look at that last render I posted... what's outside might as well be Route 9. The inward mall concept doesn't even face the harbor. None of the renders even show the harbor side at human scale. That should concern you.
Kent, for real? You'd go out of your way to bring a friend from out of town on a stroll down the Greenway to show them the outside of... this?
I support the height too, but please admit to yourself that no part of this design concept is being built towards the Greenway. Look at that last render I posted... what's outside might as well be Route 9. The inward mall concept doesn't even face the harbor. None of the renders even show the harbor side at human scale. That should concern you.
Kent, for real? You'd go out of your way to bring a friend from out of town on a stroll down the Greenway to show them the outside of... this?
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 7,003
- Reaction score
- 1,748
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
Yeah that's pretty terrible. You think the City Hall is a spaceship, then wtf is this crap!
Yeah that's pretty terrible. You think the City Hall is a spaceship, then wtf is this crap!
Beton Brut
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 4,382
- Reaction score
- 336
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
I hope Bill Pederson improves his concept. He's capable of better.
I mentioned this Shigeru Ban project to Chiofaro when I met him last spring.
I hope Bill Pederson improves his concept. He's capable of better.
I mentioned this Shigeru Ban project to Chiofaro when I met him last spring.
KentXie
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 4,192
- Reaction score
- 758
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
It's only a rendering. As many projects have shown, a rendering does not show everything.
It's only a rendering. As many projects have shown, a rendering does not show everything.
Patriots_1228
Active Member
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2007
- Messages
- 368
- Reaction score
- 1
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
The concept could work, if they did more stores/restaurants/entertainment on that lower level instead of the blank walls. I almost think those blank walls are intended to be storefronts [ableit, boring modern glass storefronts] because there are i guess "tables" outside those walls.
The concept could work, if they did more stores/restaurants/entertainment on that lower level instead of the blank walls. I almost think those blank walls are intended to be storefronts [ableit, boring modern glass storefronts] because there are i guess "tables" outside those walls.
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
There's a lot of discussion going on here about a project that is so sketchily presented that I have no idea what I'm looking at.
Are we passing judgment on the emperor's clothes?
There's a lot of discussion going on here about a project that is so sketchily presented that I have no idea what I'm looking at.
Are we passing judgment on the emperor's clothes?
Ron Newman
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 30, 2006
- Messages
- 8,395
- Reaction score
- 12
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
Split the difference -- open it up from April to October, glass it in during the cold-weather months.
Split the difference -- open it up from April to October, glass it in during the cold-weather months.
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
I disagree. Theres a LOT of outdoor space along the waterfront. Dont forget that 9 months out of the year, its very cold air blowing in.
I am all for another space for me to hang out in at 4am. The ICA steps are great in the summer, but the only warm place downtown open 24 hours is south station, and then you have to go all the way to the pru to get somewhere warm.
I disagree. Theres a LOT of outdoor space along the waterfront. Dont forget that 9 months out of the year, its very cold air blowing in.
I am all for another space for me to hang out in at 4am. The ICA steps are great in the summer, but the only warm place downtown open 24 hours is south station, and then you have to go all the way to the pru to get somewhere warm.
found5dollar
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2007
- Messages
- 1,148
- Reaction score
- 401
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
we cant judge anything from these pictures... the floor of the glassed in part is a different material in each rendering. from the outside it looks like brick, from the inside it looks like some sort of white tile. Same thing with the walls... from the outside they look like terracotta, from the inside they look like unpainted drywall... I like how the glassed in part loos from the outside renderings, but not from the inside ones... but we have no idea which is right.
we cant judge anything from these pictures... the floor of the glassed in part is a different material in each rendering. from the outside it looks like brick, from the inside it looks like some sort of white tile. Same thing with the walls... from the outside they look like terracotta, from the inside they look like unpainted drywall... I like how the glassed in part loos from the outside renderings, but not from the inside ones... but we have no idea which is right.
Padre Mike
Active Member
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2007
- Messages
- 681
- Reaction score
- 1
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
What can I say? These detailed renderings make me wonder what Pederson and company are thinking. The scale at street level is all wrong. The glass boxed attached to the building may end up being no more enlivening than that funnel shaped glass addition to the Ritz tower on Wash. St. I recall that rendering. The glassed area promised to be filled with people doing lots of activities. Instead, one level is filled with gym equipment and the rest of it is part of the theater decor. I agree that Chiofaro did himself no favors with these renderings. Instead of showing that tall can really work next to the greenway, he's given ammunition to those who rightly fear that this will serve as a long, boring, ugly wall of nothingness for most of the year, when ables and umbrellas at the base are actually impossible due to the weather conditions.
The atrium appears to be no more exciting than that in Gund's State St. building (the one with gilt chevrons) or the ATT building on High St., or Stern's Berkeley St. building. Unless there's a permanent carnival or market set up in this passageway, I think it will be another barren waste of space. Why cut through a building when one can avoid doors and security and walk around it?? And, BTW, has anyone thought of the wind-tunnel effect that will exit at the base of this building?...shades of the Handcock and Copley Sq. Who's going to want to sit outside in a tornado?
What can I say? These detailed renderings make me wonder what Pederson and company are thinking. The scale at street level is all wrong. The glass boxed attached to the building may end up being no more enlivening than that funnel shaped glass addition to the Ritz tower on Wash. St. I recall that rendering. The glassed area promised to be filled with people doing lots of activities. Instead, one level is filled with gym equipment and the rest of it is part of the theater decor. I agree that Chiofaro did himself no favors with these renderings. Instead of showing that tall can really work next to the greenway, he's given ammunition to those who rightly fear that this will serve as a long, boring, ugly wall of nothingness for most of the year, when ables and umbrellas at the base are actually impossible due to the weather conditions.
The atrium appears to be no more exciting than that in Gund's State St. building (the one with gilt chevrons) or the ATT building on High St., or Stern's Berkeley St. building. Unless there's a permanent carnival or market set up in this passageway, I think it will be another barren waste of space. Why cut through a building when one can avoid doors and security and walk around it?? And, BTW, has anyone thought of the wind-tunnel effect that will exit at the base of this building?...shades of the Handcock and Copley Sq. Who's going to want to sit outside in a tornado?
stellarfun
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
- Messages
- 5,690
- Reaction score
- 1,506
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
IMO, he'll have difficulty getting casualty insurance for that design in this day and age.
He intends to use as much of his garage parcel as he can; taking even more of the space than the garage currently does. All one need do is look at the setbacks, bollards, and berms they built for the Federal Reserve building in Boston, or look at what NYC is mandating at the WTC, to see the design constraints architects and builders have to deal with. (No sooner had the Big Dig finished with the landscaping along Atlantic Ave at the Fed, when the Fed tore it all out.)
Anyone in this day and age who builds a big glass container and fronts it on the sidewalk in a supposedly iconic building in a major city is pasting a big target on the side of the building. The more that the 'container' is a magnet to draw people to the Greenway, the more inviting it is as a target.
IMO, he'll have difficulty getting casualty insurance for that design in this day and age.
He intends to use as much of his garage parcel as he can; taking even more of the space than the garage currently does. All one need do is look at the setbacks, bollards, and berms they built for the Federal Reserve building in Boston, or look at what NYC is mandating at the WTC, to see the design constraints architects and builders have to deal with. (No sooner had the Big Dig finished with the landscaping along Atlantic Ave at the Fed, when the Fed tore it all out.)
Anyone in this day and age who builds a big glass container and fronts it on the sidewalk in a supposedly iconic building in a major city is pasting a big target on the side of the building. The more that the 'container' is a magnet to draw people to the Greenway, the more inviting it is as a target.
kennedy
Senior Member
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
- Messages
- 2,820
- Reaction score
- 7
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
Little bit paranoid after the Times Square thing? It's a condo tower, not the Federal Reserve.
Those renderings are shit, anyone judging anything from them is a little silly. They're totally concept based, little more than digital versions of napkin sketches. I'll wait until there are legitimate renders to make a decision, although I agree that these don't help Chiofaro's case. He should really work on getting images that highlight the street level, because the monumentality of the towers is not what will sell it to the neighbors.
Little bit paranoid after the Times Square thing? It's a condo tower, not the Federal Reserve.
Those renderings are shit, anyone judging anything from them is a little silly. They're totally concept based, little more than digital versions of napkin sketches. I'll wait until there are legitimate renders to make a decision, although I agree that these don't help Chiofaro's case. He should really work on getting images that highlight the street level, because the monumentality of the towers is not what will sell it to the neighbors.
stellarfun
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
- Messages
- 5,690
- Reaction score
- 1,506
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
Not paranoid at all. The setback from West St. for the Freedom Tower now being built at the WTC site was increased from 25 feet to 90 feet, a decision made long before Times Square and firecrackers strapped around propane tanks for a barbecue grill.
The current sidewalk in front of the Harbor Garage is about 20 feet. The sidewalk in front of the Rowe's Wharf dome is over 50 feet.
You could put up bollards to keep somebody driving through his glass curtain, but 20 feet is very little distance to protect a glass curtain from being blasted into slivers. (And from the ENR, Chiofaro intends to build right to the property line.)
Chiofaro has a conundrum. The more iconic he wants this structure to be, the more he seeks it to be a magnet destination revitalizing the Greenway, the more he introduces design elements that invite openness, vistas, and access, the more that prospective terrorists see it is a target, and an easy one at that.
Its a sad, unfortunate fact that architecture and design need to factor protection against terrorism these days. But to borrow what's becoming a trite phrase, 'it is what it is'.
Not paranoid at all. The setback from West St. for the Freedom Tower now being built at the WTC site was increased from 25 feet to 90 feet, a decision made long before Times Square and firecrackers strapped around propane tanks for a barbecue grill.
The current sidewalk in front of the Harbor Garage is about 20 feet. The sidewalk in front of the Rowe's Wharf dome is over 50 feet.
You could put up bollards to keep somebody driving through his glass curtain, but 20 feet is very little distance to protect a glass curtain from being blasted into slivers. (And from the ENR, Chiofaro intends to build right to the property line.)
Chiofaro has a conundrum. The more iconic he wants this structure to be, the more he seeks it to be a magnet destination revitalizing the Greenway, the more he introduces design elements that invite openness, vistas, and access, the more that prospective terrorists see it is a target, and an easy one at that.
Its a sad, unfortunate fact that architecture and design need to factor protection against terrorism these days. But to borrow what's becoming a trite phrase, 'it is what it is'.
Ron Newman
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 30, 2006
- Messages
- 8,395
- Reaction score
- 12
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
Apple Store fa?ade on Boylston Street is solid glass and directly adjoins the sidewalk.
The Federal Reserve has all of those bollards because it is a federal government building. This isn't. It's a commercial building and has no interest for terrorists.
Apple Store fa?ade on Boylston Street is solid glass and directly adjoins the sidewalk.
The Federal Reserve has all of those bollards because it is a federal government building. This isn't. It's a commercial building and has no interest for terrorists.
BarbaricManchurian
Senior Member
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2007
- Messages
- 1,067
- Reaction score
- 64
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
lol
lol
KentXie
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 4,192
- Reaction score
- 758
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
You know what's my take on Menino's opposition to this project? It seems more personal than politics.
Here we have a Mayor, that a few years back, stunned the public with announcement to build something iconic, a 1000 ft tower in Boston. The proposal not only broke the height limit, but casted a "deadly shadow" over the Common. Yet the mayor continued to push for it, because we all know his true intention was to build something iconic for his legacy.
Flash forward to today. Menino's iconic project has failed. Don Chiofaro is trying to build an iconic tower of his own in Boston. It broke the height limit and casted a shadow over a park, the same conditions that Menino's project did. Yet Menino did a complete 180, and opposed it, vehemently stating that it is too tall and it will cast a shadow. What makes this more interesting is one may now say that Menino's legacy is the RFK Greenway. Could it be the mayor does not want his "little legacy" to be in the shadows of another man's vision?
This isn't politics. It's one man's selfish desires that is controlling the city.
You know what's my take on Menino's opposition to this project? It seems more personal than politics.
Here we have a Mayor, that a few years back, stunned the public with announcement to build something iconic, a 1000 ft tower in Boston. The proposal not only broke the height limit, but casted a "deadly shadow" over the Common. Yet the mayor continued to push for it, because we all know his true intention was to build something iconic for his legacy.
Flash forward to today. Menino's iconic project has failed. Don Chiofaro is trying to build an iconic tower of his own in Boston. It broke the height limit and casted a shadow over a park, the same conditions that Menino's project did. Yet Menino did a complete 180, and opposed it, vehemently stating that it is too tall and it will cast a shadow. What makes this more interesting is one may now say that Menino's legacy is the RFK Greenway. Could it be the mayor does not want his "little legacy" to be in the shadows of another man's vision?
This isn't politics. It's one man's selfish desires that is controlling the city.
stellarfun
Senior Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
- Messages
- 5,690
- Reaction score
- 1,506
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
Rudy G. also once declared there were no terrorist attacks during the Bush Presidency.
Murrah before
Murrah after
Salt Lake City Convention Center barrier to prevent vehicle access
David Child's stainless steel base for the new 7 World Trade Center, which is built like the proverbial brick s*ithouse.
I know every Apple store is iconic to Apple lovers.
Rudy G. also once declared there were no terrorist attacks during the Bush Presidency.
Murrah before
Murrah after
Salt Lake City Convention Center barrier to prevent vehicle access
David Child's stainless steel base for the new 7 World Trade Center, which is built like the proverbial brick s*ithouse.
- Status