[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
I wasn't aware that the big X is still up, I thought it was a short-term thing.
Here is the sign updated with your more accurate description:
source
Agreed.
I wasn't aware that the big X is still up, I thought it was a short-term thing.
Here is the sign updated with your more accurate description:
source
Shepard said:
Agreed.
TheRifleman
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
Chiofaro?s ambitions grow
But developer?s plan to transform site near Harbor Garage faces numerous obstacles
By Casey Ross
Globe Staff / June 3, 2010
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Sending your articleYour article has been sent. E-mail| Print| Reprints| Yahoo! Buzz| ShareThisText size ? + As part of his proposed redevelopment of the Harbor Garage, developer Donald J. Chiofaro wants to redesign a portion of neighboring New England Aquarium by incorporating its IMAX theater into a glittery atrium at the base of his two-skyscraper complex.
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COMMENTS (3)
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Photos
Chiofaro's efforts to push tower plans
Map Location of plaza
Read Chiofaro's proposalThe changes would replace the existing plaza and tree-lined park with a waterfront square with landscaping, a fountain, space for food vendors and public art, and a pathway connecting the Aquarium to the Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway.
?Our concept sets the table to make the Greenway a much more vibrant area that is truly connected to the waterfront,?? Chiofaro said in a statement, adding: ?Whether we will actually be able to implement any of these good ideas will depend on the will, conviction, energy, and open-mindedness of the stakeholders, most importantly the city and the mayor.??
But multiple roadblocks stand in the way of Chiofaro?s plan, not least being he doesn?t own the property he proposes to redesign. Also, City Hall remains resolutely opposed to the height of his proposed 45- and 50-story skyscrapers, the tallest of which would be 625 feet. Boston officials have said the buildings should be limited to 200 feet to prevent them from casting shadows over the Greenway and Boston Harbor.
As for Chiofaro?s latest ideas for the area outside his building, city officials said yesterday they would not discuss them until he addresses the concerns over his proposal for the garage site.
?This is yet another distraction from the real issues this project faces,?? a Boston Redevelopment Authority spokeswoman, Susan Elsbree, said yesterday. ?The out-of-scale buildings that are proposed will forever cast long, cold shadows on the Greenway and waterfront parks. The Chiofaro towers are in violation of state, FAA, and city regulations, and no fancy brochure can change the facts.??
Elsbree reiterated the BRA is still waiting for Chiofaro to respond to the authority?s request, from July 2009, that he provide additional information about the project?s environmental impact, as well as how it would affect legal agreements with neighboring condominium owners who use his parking garage.
Chiofaro said he is working on alternatives to the buildings that might be more acceptable to city officials.
In the proposal for the Aquarium property, Chiofaro indicates a desire to change the tone of what has been an acrimonious debate about his proposal, by inviting neighbors and community groups to a broader discussion about the future of the area. The Aquarium proposal was produced by architect David Dixon, who said it strives to create stronger visual and pedestrian connections among Faneuil Hall, the Greenway, and the Aquarium.
?We have 16 million people visiting Faneuil Hall every year, and only 1.3 million people make it over to the Aquarium,?? said Dixon, who works for the architecture and planning firm Goody Clancy. ?For Boston and its waterfront, that is a huge missed opportunity.??
Dixon envisioned a space that becomes a central gathering spot on the water, where people could shop, dine, or sit and relax in a more open atmosphere. It would also incorporate the IMAX theater and additional aquarium exhibits into an expansive glass atrium that would serve as an indoor extension of the plaza during the winter.
Still, Chiofaro would need cooperation from the entities that actually own the properties he wants to redesign. The IMAX, for example, is owned by the New England Aquarium, whose chief executive, Bud Ris, said any change in location of the theater would have to be carefully considered during a lengthy public review.
?The IMAX is an extremely valuable asset to the Aquarium in terms of communicating our mission and bringing people to the waterfront,?? Ris said. He welcomed a discussion about improvements that would make the Aquarium more visible and easier to access for pedestrians and vehicles.
Chiofaro?s proposal would also require dramatic changes to a park in front of the Aquarium that is owned and managed by a Fidelity Investments nonprofit foundation. The foundation bought the property from the city in 2006 and cultivated a small park at the edge of the Greenway. A spokesman for Fidelity declined to comment on Chiofaro?s proposal.
Also affected by the plan would be Harbor Towers condominium owners, located on the other side of Chiofaro?s proposed building. There, he wants to open a food market, cafe, and other shops to serve the residential units in his complex and Harbor Towers.
Some residents of Harbor Towers object to the plans, however, saying Chiofaro refuses to address questions about the size and impact of his project, and ignored the public planning process.
?Instead of Don?s pretend planning, we would prefer to see him respond to the issues raised by the BRA and [state environmental officials] almost a year ago,?? said Yanni Tsipis, a Harbor Towers resident and consultant on Chiofaro?s proposal to its trustees.
Casey Ross can be reached at cross@globe.com.
Chiofaro?s ambitions grow
But developer?s plan to transform site near Harbor Garage faces numerous obstacles
By Casey Ross
Globe Staff / June 3, 2010
E-mail this article To: Invalid E-mail address Add a personal message
80 character limit) Your E-mail: Invalid E-mail address Sending your articleYour article has been sent. E-mail| Print| Reprints| Yahoo! Buzz| ShareThisText size ? + As part of his proposed redevelopment of the Harbor Garage, developer Donald J. Chiofaro wants to redesign a portion of neighboring New England Aquarium by incorporating its IMAX theater into a glittery atrium at the base of his two-skyscraper complex.
Discuss
COMMENTS (3)
Related
Photos
Chiofaro's efforts to push tower plans
Map Location of plaza
Read Chiofaro's proposalThe changes would replace the existing plaza and tree-lined park with a waterfront square with landscaping, a fountain, space for food vendors and public art, and a pathway connecting the Aquarium to the Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway.
?Our concept sets the table to make the Greenway a much more vibrant area that is truly connected to the waterfront,?? Chiofaro said in a statement, adding: ?Whether we will actually be able to implement any of these good ideas will depend on the will, conviction, energy, and open-mindedness of the stakeholders, most importantly the city and the mayor.??
But multiple roadblocks stand in the way of Chiofaro?s plan, not least being he doesn?t own the property he proposes to redesign. Also, City Hall remains resolutely opposed to the height of his proposed 45- and 50-story skyscrapers, the tallest of which would be 625 feet. Boston officials have said the buildings should be limited to 200 feet to prevent them from casting shadows over the Greenway and Boston Harbor.
As for Chiofaro?s latest ideas for the area outside his building, city officials said yesterday they would not discuss them until he addresses the concerns over his proposal for the garage site.
?This is yet another distraction from the real issues this project faces,?? a Boston Redevelopment Authority spokeswoman, Susan Elsbree, said yesterday. ?The out-of-scale buildings that are proposed will forever cast long, cold shadows on the Greenway and waterfront parks. The Chiofaro towers are in violation of state, FAA, and city regulations, and no fancy brochure can change the facts.??
Elsbree reiterated the BRA is still waiting for Chiofaro to respond to the authority?s request, from July 2009, that he provide additional information about the project?s environmental impact, as well as how it would affect legal agreements with neighboring condominium owners who use his parking garage.
Chiofaro said he is working on alternatives to the buildings that might be more acceptable to city officials.
In the proposal for the Aquarium property, Chiofaro indicates a desire to change the tone of what has been an acrimonious debate about his proposal, by inviting neighbors and community groups to a broader discussion about the future of the area. The Aquarium proposal was produced by architect David Dixon, who said it strives to create stronger visual and pedestrian connections among Faneuil Hall, the Greenway, and the Aquarium.
?We have 16 million people visiting Faneuil Hall every year, and only 1.3 million people make it over to the Aquarium,?? said Dixon, who works for the architecture and planning firm Goody Clancy. ?For Boston and its waterfront, that is a huge missed opportunity.??
Dixon envisioned a space that becomes a central gathering spot on the water, where people could shop, dine, or sit and relax in a more open atmosphere. It would also incorporate the IMAX theater and additional aquarium exhibits into an expansive glass atrium that would serve as an indoor extension of the plaza during the winter.
Still, Chiofaro would need cooperation from the entities that actually own the properties he wants to redesign. The IMAX, for example, is owned by the New England Aquarium, whose chief executive, Bud Ris, said any change in location of the theater would have to be carefully considered during a lengthy public review.
?The IMAX is an extremely valuable asset to the Aquarium in terms of communicating our mission and bringing people to the waterfront,?? Ris said. He welcomed a discussion about improvements that would make the Aquarium more visible and easier to access for pedestrians and vehicles.
Chiofaro?s proposal would also require dramatic changes to a park in front of the Aquarium that is owned and managed by a Fidelity Investments nonprofit foundation. The foundation bought the property from the city in 2006 and cultivated a small park at the edge of the Greenway. A spokesman for Fidelity declined to comment on Chiofaro?s proposal.
Also affected by the plan would be Harbor Towers condominium owners, located on the other side of Chiofaro?s proposed building. There, he wants to open a food market, cafe, and other shops to serve the residential units in his complex and Harbor Towers.
Some residents of Harbor Towers object to the plans, however, saying Chiofaro refuses to address questions about the size and impact of his project, and ignored the public planning process.
?Instead of Don?s pretend planning, we would prefer to see him respond to the issues raised by the BRA and [state environmental officials] almost a year ago,?? said Yanni Tsipis, a Harbor Towers resident and consultant on Chiofaro?s proposal to its trustees.
Casey Ross can be reached at cross@globe.com.
stellarfun
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
Surely if the view was even half-decent, Chiofaro would spend a few thousand dollars for a rendering or two illustrating the vista the Arch would offer to those at street level. Putting aside any quibbles about truth in advertising, I would think such would be a tremendous selling point.
I'd be willing to bet that multiple renderings will be prepared of the view from the $1,500 a sq ft condo space at the top of the Arch long before there is a single rendering of the view looking seaward from Atlantic Ave, or even from inside the glass lobby.
Surely if the view was even half-decent, Chiofaro would spend a few thousand dollars for a rendering or two illustrating the vista the Arch would offer to those at street level. Putting aside any quibbles about truth in advertising, I would think such would be a tremendous selling point.
I'd be willing to bet that multiple renderings will be prepared of the view from the $1,500 a sq ft condo space at the top of the Arch long before there is a single rendering of the view looking seaward from Atlantic Ave, or even from inside the glass lobby.
statler
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
He is getting closer, but still going about it the wrong way.
He needs to work with NEA and form a partnership. They get a brand new, state-of-the-art aquarium, he gets prime waterfront property. The Aquarium would work better on the Greenway (while still maintaining a connection to the water), plus it would help activate the Greeway. It would be a win-win-win for the city.
Thus will never, ever happen.
He is getting closer, but still going about it the wrong way.
He needs to work with NEA and form a partnership. They get a brand new, state-of-the-art aquarium, he gets prime waterfront property. The Aquarium would work better on the Greenway (while still maintaining a connection to the water), plus it would help activate the Greeway. It would be a win-win-win for the city.
Thus will never, ever happen.
AmericanFolkLegend
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
A great idea, but I don't think it's economically feasible. He just spent $200M+ on a parking garage. What makes you think he can spend another $300M on a state-of-the-art aquarium? (That $300M cost comes from the cost of building the Atlanta Aquarium - which just announced a $110M expansion, so perhaps the real number is closer to $400M+).
statler
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
I was working on the assumption that the value of land the current NEA sits on might make it feasible if the complex could be situated properly. Plus I also assumed that the NEA would be able to raise some of its own captal funding to contribute.
But as I said, there are just too many roadblocks for this to ever happen. Financing would just be one of them.
I was working on the assumption that the value of land the current NEA sits on might make it feasible if the complex could be situated properly. Plus I also assumed that the NEA would be able to raise some of its own captal funding to contribute.
But as I said, there are just too many roadblocks for this to ever happen. Financing would just be one of them.
TheRifleman
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
This was the right play for this developer. I think his plan all along was to link the Aquarium to his development. If the Mayor and the BRA don't start working with this developer especially if New England Aquarium jumps on his back then we might see a backlashing against the BRA.
This was the right play for this developer. I think his plan all along was to link the Aquarium to his development. If the Mayor and the BRA don't start working with this developer especially if New England Aquarium jumps on his back then we might see a backlashing against the BRA.
statler
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
^^ Agreed, but maybe it would have been nice to talk to the folks at the NEA before running to the media about how he was going to start moving their shit around?
Also I don't know if anyone will get this joke, but I'm going to throw it out there anyway:
^^ Agreed, but maybe it would have been nice to talk to the folks at the NEA before running to the media about how he was going to start moving their shit around?
Also I don't know if anyone will get this joke, but I'm going to throw it out there anyway:
TheRifleman
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
This is a classic statement from the BRA
?This is yet another distraction from the real issues this project faces,?? a Boston Redevelopment Authority spokeswoman, Susan Elsbree, said yesterday. ?The out-of-scale buildings that are proposed will forever cast long, cold shadows on the Greenway and waterfront parks. The Chiofaro towers are in violation of state, FAA, and city regulations, and no fancy brochure can change the facts.??
The out-scale-buildings? The BRA does not make any sense. Have our city employees become architectural dictators?
This is a classic statement from the BRA
?This is yet another distraction from the real issues this project faces,?? a Boston Redevelopment Authority spokeswoman, Susan Elsbree, said yesterday. ?The out-of-scale buildings that are proposed will forever cast long, cold shadows on the Greenway and waterfront parks. The Chiofaro towers are in violation of state, FAA, and city regulations, and no fancy brochure can change the facts.??
The out-scale-buildings? The BRA does not make any sense. Have our city employees become architectural dictators?
Beton Brut
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
Something like this? If it's okay to have a 40' billboard for menthol cigarettes facing the Greenway, why not something in the vein of WGBH's display?
Something like this? If it's okay to have a 40' billboard for menthol cigarettes facing the Greenway, why not something in the vein of WGBH's display?
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
Wasn't the Georgia Aquarium built pretty much entirely with money donated from the founder of Home Depot?
If someone would step up with the money to build a brand new aquarium, coupled with these towers getting built, that would be big for the area.
Wasn't the Georgia Aquarium built pretty much entirely with money donated from the founder of Home Depot?
If someone would step up with the money to build a brand new aquarium, coupled with these towers getting built, that would be big for the area.
palindrome
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
Yo dawg, I heard you like parks. So I put a park, in your park so you can enjoy empty grass, while you enjoy empty grass.
lame, I know.
^^ Agreed, but maybe it would have been nice to talk to the folks at the NEA before running to the media about how he was going to start moving their shit around?
Also I don't know if anyone will get this joke, but I'm going to throw it out there anyway:
Yo dawg, I heard you like parks. So I put a park, in your park so you can enjoy empty grass, while you enjoy empty grass.
lame, I know.
KentXie
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
I don't know about you but Boston's waterfront isn't exactly great. I take Baltimore's over Boston any day. Here's Boston's chance to catch up and all the NIMBYs care about are shadow. Once again, the focus on the negative, never the positive. I wonder what kind of lives these people lead as pessimists.
I don't know about you but Boston's waterfront isn't exactly great. I take Baltimore's over Boston any day. Here's Boston's chance to catch up and all the NIMBYs care about are shadow. Once again, the focus on the negative, never the positive. I wonder what kind of lives these people lead as pessimists.
BostonUrbEx
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
"Shadows" are the urban equivalent of "property values". Something real, that when invoked, doesn't mean what you think it does.
"Property values" are all about control. Would a small shed in the back of your neighbor's yard ruin the value of your home? No, but an HOA can foreclose on their house if they refuse to move it. Wrong color mailbox? "Property values are going to be destroyed!" Fines. Lien. Foreclosure. It's the same argument applied to every situation, regardless of if its warranted or not.
None of that makes sense in a sane, logical analysis of maintaining land value. But the term has become a code phrase for "Preventing everything we don't want". Which is why its used in almost every situation.
A call to prevent "shadows" is not really about shadows. It's about preventing development. It's about anti-urbanism. It's about transforming Boston into something that resembles the exburbs as much as possible. We have entire generations weaned on suburban life, and they want to find the familiar trappings of it everywhere. You don't find high rises in the suburbs, you find six lanes of traffic - notice none of these anti-shadow critics complains about the Surface Artery, or the endless cross streets that mar the Greenway experience.
In the suburbs you find treeless, shadeless expanses of grass with a few saplings and shrubs. Median strip, subdivision and office park landscaping are normal. It's about transforming a space into nothing. Nullifying all of its possible manmade uses and natural form, then preserving it as a specimen of deliberate, and absolute nothing. Perfectly manicured grass bathed in endless sunlight. A sculpture of banality. You have constant effort expended to maintain it in that state. To nurture it to be the best nothing it can be. Teams of landscapers, gallons of chemicals and water. All to preserve something that doesn't give you anything back but the knowledge that it's there, and you created it and keep it in that state.
You can't develop Greenway. You can't develop around it. You can't develop anything that will ever somehow remotely change anything about it in any perceptible fashion even if it is only a shadow that falls on a windswept part of it for a few hours a day during the winter months. It's the obsessive-compulsive control issue that festers in contemporary society rearing its ugly head. The need to keep a space bland, static, predictable and fitting within a specific vision. The vision we have here is the lowest-common-denominator suburban emptiness. The situation with the Greenway would be almost hilarious if it weren't created with the explicit mission of knitting the city back together.
On top of that, you have some very well founded fears of another urban renewal phase erupting. Boston lost some of its best neighborhoods to people who came in promising the best for the city, if there could only be a few towers built here and there?
Of course, none of what's proposed today will actually hurt the city. Quite the opposite. Yet the caution remains ingrained in those who know what was in the West End, who remember, or wish they could remember Scollay Square.
That is what the shadow thing encompasses.
"Shadows" are the urban equivalent of "property values". Something real, that when invoked, doesn't mean what you think it does.
"Property values" are all about control. Would a small shed in the back of your neighbor's yard ruin the value of your home? No, but an HOA can foreclose on their house if they refuse to move it. Wrong color mailbox? "Property values are going to be destroyed!" Fines. Lien. Foreclosure. It's the same argument applied to every situation, regardless of if its warranted or not.
None of that makes sense in a sane, logical analysis of maintaining land value. But the term has become a code phrase for "Preventing everything we don't want". Which is why its used in almost every situation.
A call to prevent "shadows" is not really about shadows. It's about preventing development. It's about anti-urbanism. It's about transforming Boston into something that resembles the exburbs as much as possible. We have entire generations weaned on suburban life, and they want to find the familiar trappings of it everywhere. You don't find high rises in the suburbs, you find six lanes of traffic - notice none of these anti-shadow critics complains about the Surface Artery, or the endless cross streets that mar the Greenway experience.
In the suburbs you find treeless, shadeless expanses of grass with a few saplings and shrubs. Median strip, subdivision and office park landscaping are normal. It's about transforming a space into nothing. Nullifying all of its possible manmade uses and natural form, then preserving it as a specimen of deliberate, and absolute nothing. Perfectly manicured grass bathed in endless sunlight. A sculpture of banality. You have constant effort expended to maintain it in that state. To nurture it to be the best nothing it can be. Teams of landscapers, gallons of chemicals and water. All to preserve something that doesn't give you anything back but the knowledge that it's there, and you created it and keep it in that state.
You can't develop Greenway. You can't develop around it. You can't develop anything that will ever somehow remotely change anything about it in any perceptible fashion even if it is only a shadow that falls on a windswept part of it for a few hours a day during the winter months. It's the obsessive-compulsive control issue that festers in contemporary society rearing its ugly head. The need to keep a space bland, static, predictable and fitting within a specific vision. The vision we have here is the lowest-common-denominator suburban emptiness. The situation with the Greenway would be almost hilarious if it weren't created with the explicit mission of knitting the city back together.
On top of that, you have some very well founded fears of another urban renewal phase erupting. Boston lost some of its best neighborhoods to people who came in promising the best for the city, if there could only be a few towers built here and there?
Of course, none of what's proposed today will actually hurt the city. Quite the opposite. Yet the caution remains ingrained in those who know what was in the West End, who remember, or wish they could remember Scollay Square.
That is what the shadow thing encompasses.
Beton Brut
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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)
To many people in Boston who refer to themselves as activists are actually "deactivists."
To many people in Boston who refer to themselves as activists are actually "deactivists."
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