[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I don't understand why he's complaining if the BRA asked him for more information about his project a year ago and he still hasn't gotten back to them. Why doesn't he just give them the info on his project and advance the ball down the field?


I think Chiofaro needs the okay for the height before he can move forward with anymore decisions on this project.

Why would any developer ever show the BRA all their information on a project when they won't even approve him for the height restricitions. Menino and the BRA are already said in the paper that "he paid too much for the garage." So in my view I would be thinking that they might want to steal my idea for the parcel if they get the chance. I would never trust any of these people.

Municipal Harbor Plan (Chap 91) which is why the developer created corridor between both structures if built.
I don't understand how Harbor Towers was built with all these height restrictions in place? This developer is presenting a first rate development at the edge of a very cold lifeless Greenway area, not some piece of poorly planned residential building made of concrete and sand.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Hi Rifleman,

Sorry - when I said the BRA requested information about the project, they requested things like wind and shadow and traffic studies - hardly proprietary stuff that they could "steal." The point of the BRA's asking was so they could evaluate what the real impacts of the project are, which is why it's so odd that Chiofaro wouldn't have given them the information. If the project's impacts are so manageable, why not just do the studies and show the world that the project won't have any impacts?!!

Also, Chapter 91 requires that 50% of the project site be maintained as public open space. Chiofaro's plan had something like 10% so definitely not compliant with the state law.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Also, Chapter 91 requires that 50% of the project site be maintained as public open space.

That is a terrible, terrible law. Absolute suburbanization of what should be a purely urban area.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Hi Rifleman,

Sorry - when I said the BRA requested information about the project, they requested things like wind and shadow and traffic studies - hardly proprietary stuff that they could "steal." The point of the BRA's asking was so they could evaluate what the real impacts of the project are, which is why it's so odd that Chiofaro wouldn't have given them the information. If the project's impacts are so manageable, why not just do the studies and show the world that the project won't have any impacts?!!

Also, Chapter 91 requires that 50% of the project site be maintained as public open space. Chiofaro's plan had something like 10% so definitely not compliant with the state law.

I really don't think anybody could really determine what would happen until the building is actually built. It doesn't matter what consultants say you will get one with a negative view and one with a positive view.

The question is will the Shadows cause that much of a negative impact or a positive cooling off period on that part of the Greenway?

Traffic could go either way, If the area becomes more pedestrian friendly then at all costs drivers will try to avoid driving through this area.

Wind-I honestly don't know. Don't forget it's a city.

The one thing I know is if this guy is able to build this structure, I wish I owned sometype of real estate on the Greenway because property values will be priceless especially bringing more street life to the Aquarim area.

The strip might be the most costly strip in the country with Intercon, Atlantic wharf, IP, Harbor Towers, High St, Lincoln St, Rowes Wharf, Federal Reserve, ect.

Get the drift.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Hi Rifleman,



Also, Chapter 91 requires that 50% of the project site be maintained as public open space. Chiofaro's plan had something like 10% so definitely not compliant with the state law.

I'm getting the impression that this chapt 91 is something that only gets used when it's in the BRA's favor. B/c the Harbor Towers are taller than this silly outdated law permits, and I'm guessing the garage currently there occupies more than 50% of the property. Both of which were built well after 1855.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

What Chiofaro might be doing is trying to demonstrate that the existing zoning and the Municipal Harbor Plan are both poorly thought out and need to be fixed.

I got a similar vibe from Mr. Chiofaro when I spoke with him after a BRA meeting last year.

If that that case, than Chiofaro is playing chess while everyone else is play checkers.

I use this turn of phrase all to often in the workplace. I said it to our CIO once and he looked like he didn't know whether to shit or wind his watch...
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

That is a terrible, terrible law. Absolute suburbanization of what should be a purely urban area.

And also, now that the HarborWalk exists, isn't the raison d'etre for this pretty much gone?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Also, Chapter 91 requires that 50% of the project site be maintained as public open space.

Define "open space"? If the building is 20 feet above the ground, does that count as open space underneath? 50% sounds absurd.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

What Chiofaro might be doing is trying to demostrate that the existing zoning and the Municipal Harbor Plan are both poorly thought out and need to be fixed.

If that that case, than Chiofaro is playing chess while everyone else is play checkers. I'm not sure I'd give him that much credit. Most likely he just wants his own rules to play by.
When the FAA made its determination that a bit over 400 feet was as high as they would allow, his response was something like 'Not a surprise. We expected that would be what they would say.'

In his initial conversations with the BRA, coincident with his buying the garage, he was proposing towers in the 450' range. Over a year later, he decides to tack on a couple of hundred feet.

So IMO, its not that everyone is playing checkers while he is playing chess, he is playing tiddlywinks while everybody else plays checkers.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Does anyone happen to have a map of Boston's downtown and surrounding areas which shows parcel's height limits?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Does anyone happen to have a map of Boston's downtown and surrounding areas which shows parcel's height limits?

This may exist (somewhere), but it doesn't seem to matter as zoning tends to be meted on more on an ad hoc basis. Because, after all, you can't have the rule of the BRA if you have the rule of law!
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Also, Chapter 91 requires that 50% of the project site be maintained as public open space.

And that's revolting. If not Chiofaro, then I hope someone, developer or not, can get this absurdity changed.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

so, this property which is facing one of the largest open spaces in the city, needs to set aside half of its land for open space?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

so, this property which is facing one of the largest open spaces in the city, needs to set aside half of its land for open space?

That's what the (most?) ridiculous part of this whole thing is. Even if in imagination land it were given the green light to start tomorrow, why in the world should there have to be 50% of the site given to public open space when across the street is (In My Opinion) more open space than needed.

It's stuff like this that needs to be changed regardless of who is developing parcels of land, no matter where in the city. I find it really hard to believe that they can't appoint someone to make an assessment of a parcel to deem if there needs to be open space based on surrounding. Of course, if it were up to me if something didn't have open public space on the land prior to construction they wouldn't need to make any percentage open space.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Perhaps Don should take up some of Corbusier's five points. Elevate the base and have a plaza underneath. Sure the design on the base would probably be uglier, and the plaza will probably always be in the shadow, but hey, there's your public space.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Say what you will about Chiofaro and his proposal, but at least someone is standing up to Menino and the BRA.

From today's Globe:

Chiofaro taking fight with mayor to the public
Builder opposes new height limits

By Casey Ross
Globe Staff / April 28, 2010

The battle between developer Don Chiofaro and Mayor Thomas M. Menino ? an unusually public standoff between two strong-willed, proud men ? is ratcheting up today as Chiofaro begins a campaign to recruit city residents to lobby for his proposed project.

Calling the city?s development process ?compromised and flawed,?? Chiofaro is planning a news conference today where he will loudly challenge the mayor?s new building height limits for the area between Boston Harbor and the new Greenway.

That is where Chiofaro wants to build two skyscrapers, one 45 stories and the other 50. Menino wants to limit buildings there to 200 feet ? less than a third of the 625-foot high complex Chiofaro wants to build. So the developer is hoping to sway Menino by running advertisements that urge residents to call or write City Hall in support of his proposal.

?We need to educate the public and seek a compromise with something that will work,?? Chiofaro partner Ted Oatis said of the lobbying campaign. ?We?re just trying to have a real dialogue here.??

In recent weeks, that dialogue has escalated into a shouting match that has reverberated throughout Boston?s tight-knit development world, where most builders are deferential to Menino and scrupulously avoid public comments that could set off the mayor, and risk scuttling their development plans.

?Others might feel the way Don does sometimes, but they would never verbalize it,?? said Vivien Li, who follows development closely as executive director of the Boston Harbor Association, which promotes public access to the waterfront. ?Most of them feel it does no good to badmouth people in public office.??

But Chiofaro, unable to make headway in city hall, has taken the opposite approach. He has waged an aggressive public campaign to promote his development plan.

Chiofaro is proposing to replace the Harbor Garage on Atlantic Avenue with a $1 billion complex of offices, stores, residences, and a hotel. But if Menino moves ahead with the lower height limits, Chiofaro said, it would be economically unfeasible to build anything on his property and that he would instead keep the hulking concrete garage in operation.

Menino contends that tall buildings would cast long shadows over the Greenway parks and make them a cold, unwelcoming space.

He also says Chiofaro?s development would act as a barrier to the waterfront. Pointedly, Menino notes that the waterfront and the Greenway benefited from the billions taxpayers spent to remove the old elevated Central Artery that once divided the city.

?It?s very shortsighted of developers to complain that they paid a lot for their property, and they want a return on their investment,?? Menino said in a Globe story on the height limitations last month. ?I don?t think that?s right. The taxpayers paid to create the Greenway, and they want it to be accessible.??

Menino has also questioned whether Chiofaro could afford to build his grand project, even if he could get city approval. The mayor has suggested Chiofaro overpaid for the garage when he bought it in 2007 for $155 million, and that given the economy, there is no demand for new office space in the amounts he would add. Nearly every large-scale development project in the city is stalled because of the lack of capital for construction projects. Seven office projects comprising 4.6 million square feet are struggling to raise funds, and they have permits that Chiofaro?s project lacks.

Lenders are reluctant to provide funding at a time when office rents in Boston are still dropping, to levels that won?t repay the high cost of building a new office tower. Moreover, the retail sector that helps anchor projects such as Chiofaro?s is recovering from the recession and is not opening new stores.

But Chiofaro and his partners say none of that should prevent the city from considering their project, which, if approved, could be ready for construction when the building market recovers. Today his firm will begin running advertisements on Boston.com, the Globe?s website, that urge people to tell Menino to support his project.

?We aren?t just constructing a building, we?re creating a neighborhood,?? the ad reads. It also pitches the project as environmentally friendly and a creator of jobs in the sluggish economy. Chiofaro has estimated his project will create 3,000 construction jobs and another 3,000 permanent positions.

He?s not winning converts at the place where he most needs them: the Boston Redevelopment Authority. At the BRA, Menino aides said Chiofaro is trying to deflect attention from what they say are the negative aspects of his towers, such as shadows on the Greenway and a barrier to the waterfront.

?This continues his PR ploy to put his personal profits before the protection of the Greenway and Boston Harbor,?? said Susan Elsbree, a spokeswoman for the BRA. Residents at the adjacent Harbor Towers condominiums have also continued to attack Chiofaro loudly, yesterday issuing a statement calling his planned news conference ?an act of desperation.??

But Oatis said the Chiofaro firm?s resolve has not weakened, nor has its desire to challenge the mayor.

?We think the project we?re suggesting can make an enormous difference for the Greenway,?? Oatis said. ?If the garage doesn?t get redeveloped, the losers will be everybody in the city.??

I'm so sick of the same B.S. arguments - shadows on a lousy median strip of a park, and blocking access (when actually access will be improved).
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I'm so sick of the same B.S. arguments - shadows on a lousy median strip of a park, and blocking access (when actually access will be improved).

Not to mention the fact that [nothing] was built so that [nothing] could be developed anywhere near it.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I will be supporting this development and writing to the BRA & Mayor to grant Mr. Chiofaro an extra 400Ft or 500Ft he needs on top of the 200Ft approval
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Menino said:
The taxpayers paid to create the Greenway, and they want it to be accessible.

I thought they paid to improve traffic, reduce vehicle emissions, and remove a wide strip of non-development?

Or was the Big Dig just a parks project?
 
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