[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Keep in mind the design of the Public Garden was solid from the beginning. The Greenway is simply broken.

I challenge you on that statement. Can you back that up with facts?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

That's only half of the statement, and the obvious easy half to back up. How about the solid planning of the Public Garden from day 1?

Which I don't doubt, but would enjoy the history lesson.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

You know, fifty years ago City Hall Plaza was a desolate wasteland, devoid of life and purpose and just look at it now!
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

You know, fifty years ago City Hall Plaza was a desolate wasteland, devoid of life and purpose and just look at it now!

The fountain on the site has been completely filled in with a concrete pad, the brick paving has deflected, some of the lighting no longer works, ugly planters or security gates have littered the area by a decaying Government Center head house, but gosh darn it we got a nice pergola, which provides no hint shelter, for a farmer's market that is never there.

At least the circus is there every year to allow the clowns in City Hall to dress up and play a more serious role in the lives of children through entertainment. The elephant waste is also a poignant metaphor for what goes on in Government Center as well.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

^^So you are saying there is hope for the Greenway?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

The City Hall farmer's market is supposed to be every Monday and Wednesday. Has it not been running as scheduled?

By the way, Big Apple Circus does not have elephants.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

What kind of circus doesn't have elephants? It's like a city hall without clowns.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Yes, it's a wasted space, but Lurker said that the scheduled farmer's markets are not happening. Is that really true?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Public Garden circa 1883
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1860s date?
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early, date?
boston_public_garden_looking_toward_arlington_st_card-p137880304505828124tdcw_210.jpg


1904
PublicGardenBoston1904.jpg
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Ron Newman -- City Hall farmer's market is supposed to be every Monday and Wednesday. Has it not been running as scheduled?

The farmer's markets are indeed running twice weekly on City Hall Plaza, and tomorrow is the grand opening ceremony for the Dewey Square farmers market - noon on the Greenway. The Dewey market runs Tuesdays and Thursdays.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

The Dewey Square market has actually been running for a few weeks already, even before the official 'grand opening'
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Here is the easy solution to this problem and the Shreve Crump & Low building. Drucker sells the SCL building to Chiofaro. Chiofaro then sells the aquarium garage to Drucker. Menino immediately declares the SCL a landmark and also approves the aquarium garage building at 50 stories.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

That's brilliant!
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

That would work, but what's Chioforo's motivation? At least he can make money on parking right now, but how does he make money on a derelict landmark?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Looking Out: Measuring The Greenway?s Success As Gateway To The Waterfront
By Bob Oakes and Lisa TobinPublished June 24, 2010 SHARE:

Greenway District Planning Study: Shadow Study--Based on Utile May 2010 massing.
Information courtesy of the Boston Redevelopment Authority. Graphic by Jesse Costa/WBUR.

http://www.wbur.org/2010/06/24/harbor-series-i

BOSTON ? At one time in Boston?s history, the harbor was the city?s commercial and cultural center ? crowded with shippers, fishermen and the people doing business with them. But what is Boston Harbor today? Where does it fit in with the 2010 version of the city? In the first of ?Looking Out At Boston Harbor,? our summer-long series that takes a fresh look at the city?s waterfront and islands, we start on the Rose Fitzgerald Kennedy Greenway.

The Greenway is the crown jewel of the Big Dig. It was supposed to be many things: A parkway, a museum center, a tourist mecca. And it?s envisioned to be the gateway to Boston Harbor.

But, many years and millions of dollars later, is it meeting that promise? We went down to the fountain on the Greenway and asked: Does this feel like the gateway to the waterfront?

Here?s the sort of thing we heard:

?Yes, because of the breeze. But I wouldn?t say you can actually see it.?

?You can?t see much. You can hear the horns of the boats.?

?You can smell it. It?s in the air. Whether you can see it or not.?

Feel it. Hear it. Smell it. But we didn?t hear anything about actually seeing it ? the blue water, with boats sliding by. Which left us wondering: Exactly how much water can you see from the Greenway?

We asked city officials. They said they never studied it and didn?t know. So we decided to find out.


Kairos Shen, Boston's chief city planner, looks at plans for the Greenway in his City Hall office. (Lisa Tobin/WBUR)
We bought a measuring wheel ? one of those rolling sticks that police use to calculate distances. We can?t exactly vouch for its accuracy, as it cost us a whopping $10, but we figured it would at least give us some sense of how much or how little water view you get from the Greenway.

And we started walking ? and wheeling. Starting outside South Station, we measured the distance to the North End, at Christopher Columbus Park, where there are no doubt great waterfront views.

Here?s what we found: There?s a lot in the way. Office buildings, a hotel, a garage, the stockade fence in front of the Harbor Tower, even trees can really block the view. Over the course of our journey ? 3,474 feet ? only one-fifth of the time did we have any kind of view of the water. And for less than 150 feet did we actually get a good, steady view of the harbor front.

Boston has its work cut out if the Greenway is to become the gateway to the waterfront.

Kairos Shen, the chief planner for the city, admits there is a lot more to be done. ?We have to, wherever possible, expand the openings to the harbor,? he says.

But he says there is a prime piece of real estate on the waterfront that could be developed to open up the view. The Harbor Garage, right next to the New England Aquarium.


Developer Don Chiofaro stands on the Greenway near the Harbor Garage, a structure he hopes to tear down and erect two tall towers in its place. (Lisa Tobin/WBUR)
The developer has a plan to tear it down and erect two huge towers in its place, with a walkway running between them to the harbor. In the developer?s words, ?the opportunity here is to create a large opening ? a hundred-foot wide opening ? that draws people through the building so that you can find the water and you can use the water.?

Sounds almost perfect. Except the developer is Don Chiofaro, who is white hot as far as city officials are concerned. He?s earned a reputation for treating real-estate development like a contact sport.

In fact, Chiofaro has ruffled the feathers of Mayor Thomas Menino to the point that the mayor wasn?t even willing to discuss the matter with us ? much less engage with Chiofaro himself.

Which is too bad, from the perspective of people we met on the Greenway, looking over at the old garage. As one woman told us: ?I wouldn?t tear down any historical buildings. But go ahead, get rid of the garage. Nobody really cares about a garage. I know there?s not a lot of parking in Boston, but??

The complaint from city officials is that Chiofaro wants to build too tall. His plan calls for twin towers reaching up to 625 feet ? so tall, officials say, that they?ll cast long shadows on the Greenway.

Chiofaro calls the shadow argument a red herring and says the city is missing an opportunity to leave a lasting legacy. ?We?re going to change the view of the harbor as you look back to the city,? he says, ?and create an iconic structure that?s going to help define and symbolize what the city is.?

?When the state was doing the Big Dig, they told us the Greenway would be Disneyland and the Champs-?lys?es.?

? Peter Meade, Greenway ConservancyBut Shen, chief city planner, says iconic or not, he has not intention of letting one developer hijack Boston?s skyscape, even if it opens up a water view.

That?s why Shen asked us not to measure the success of the Greenway in inches and feet alone.

?The notion is not about how many feet of opening you have to the water?s edge,? he says. ?The question is where are they and are they in the right places. In some cases, tight but very, very appropriately located openings can have much greater impact.?

Peter Meade, who watches over the park from his perch as Greenway Conservancy chairman, takes it further, saying it?s not even necessarily about people seeing water. ?That doesn?t mean it can?t be a gateway and it can?t be a place where people stop to get to the water,? he says.

Most importantly, Meade says, people need to stop thinking about the Greenway as the harbor gateway ? and start thinking of it as one gateway.

?There?s been too much put on the Greenway,? he says. ?When the state was doing the Big Dig, they told us the Greenway would be Disneyland and the Champs-?lys?es. We can?t be the only gateway to the harbor. There have to be multiple gateways to the great harbor that we have.?

Use of the Greenway is on the rise. Praise has been heaped on the new food vendors who recently opened shop, Wi-Fi access is coming and soon there will be new outdoor furniture.

You?ll never dip your toes in salt water there. But the Greenway?s success is growing, inch by inch
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Kairos Shen, the chief planner for the city SHOULD BE FIRED.

Seems like the MAYOR is hiding from answering questions on this development.
 
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