[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

If I've entered the parameters correctly, and I've interpreted the calculations correctly -- big IFs-- a 200 meter building in Boston at 11:57 AM on December 25 casts a shadow that is 444 meters long.

On June 25th, same time, shadow would be 70 meters.

http://www.jgiesen.de/sunshadow/
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Massport OK lifts Chiofaro proposal
By Katie Johnston Chase
Globe Staff / June 29, 2010

The Massachusetts Port Authority has approved the height of two waterfront skyscrapers that developer Donald J. Chiofaro has proposed building near the New England Aquarium.

Tweet Be the first to Tweet this!Submit to DiggdiggsdiggYahoo! Buzz ShareThis Chiofaro originally wanted the buildings to be more than 700 feet tall but has agreed to bring them down to 615 feet to be in compliance with Massport guidelines for airspace near Logan International Airport.

Massport spokesman Matthew Brelis said, ?615 feet at that location would not degrade Logan?s airspace.??

Approval from the Federal Aviation Administration is still needed.

Boston city officials have expressed opposition to the height of Chiofaro?s proposed 45- and 50-story skyscrapers and said the buildings should be limited to 200 feet to prevent them from casting shadows over the Greenway and Boston Harbor.

? Copyright 2010 Globe Newspaper Company.

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2010/06/29/massport_ok_lifts_chiofaro_proposal/
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Hey Rifleman, big deal -- if I'm reading the Massport map right, they would also allow a 900' building in the middle of the Public Garden and a 1,000' building on the Hatch Shell...but that doen't mean those buildings should be built, right? The Massport airspace surfaces map is totally unrelated to city zoning, the public realm, etc so I don't see how this is of any importance. All it means is that buildings of that height would be less likely to have planes fly into them....in any case, the ball is still 100% in Chiofaro's court to respond to the BRA's scoping determination from what....a year ago? Until he does that, no progress.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Where can we see said MassPort height map?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

greenwayguy1982 said:
Hey Rifleman, big deal -- if I'm reading the Massport map right, they would also allow a 900' building in the middle of the Public Garden and a 1,000' building on the Hatch Shell...but that doen't mean those buildings should be built, right? The Massport airspace surfaces map is totally unrelated to city zoning, the public realm, etc so I don't see how this is of any importance. All it means is that buildings of that height would be less likely to have planes fly into them....in any case, the ball is still 100% in Chiofaro's court to respond to the BRA's scoping determination from what....a year ago? Until he does that, no progress.
Click to expand...

Jeeze, all he did was post an article.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

^No kidding. I laughed out loud when I read that hissy fit of a response.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I wonder if it is, in fact, a big deal, to illicit that reaction from Greenwayguy. It takes one argument away from city hall, though, which is that even if they wanted to issue a zoning variance, they cannot. Clearly, they can.

So at this point, setting aside nonsense about shadows, the question becomes, do we have the area zoned properly, or is it zoned in a way that stifles development? Shadows and now airplanes need not apply.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

BostonUrbEx said:
Where can we see said MassPort height map?
Click to expand...

I believe someone posted a link (probably in this thread) to a map that was part of an article in the Globe a few months ago.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

type001 said:
^No kidding. I laughed out loud when I read that hissy fit of a response.
Click to expand...


clearly a Harbor Towers resident. They stick out like sore thumbs even in the virtual world. :)
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

greenwayguy1982 said:
Hey Rifleman, big deal -- if I'm reading the Massport map right, they would also allow a 900' building in the middle of the Public Garden and a 1,000' building on the Hatch Shell...but that doen't mean those buildings should be built, right? The Massport airspace surfaces map is totally unrelated to city zoning, the public realm, etc so I don't see how this is of any importance. All it means is that buildings of that height would be less likely to have planes fly into them....in any case, the ball is still 100% in Chiofaro's court to respond to the BRA's scoping determination from what....a year ago? Until he does that, no progress.
Click to expand...

Someone is butthurt. What it means is that it is not unreasonable to build someething of significant height there. Really greenwayguy, if it was incredibly dentrimental to build tall next to a park, Post Office Sq would be fallow and Central Park of NYC would be a wasteland. The surface road surrounding the median (oops I meant the Greenway) poses more of a danger than these towers ever will.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2008/09/26/reaching_lower_heights/

globegiftastic__1222409105_3117.gif


Massport previously said okay to a height of about 625 feet for the Harbor garage tower, so the okay for 615 feet is not new. As I understand it, the FAA's lower height limit is based on the tower's effect on radar coverage, and is distinct from Massport's limits.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

So the only way downtown will ever get a 700 footer is if it rises out of the Charles River. Great.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Bryant Park in NYC is surrounded by some beautiful new towers along with many older ones...similiar to what surrounds Post Office Square but much, much taller! Half of the park is covered with large Sycamore's providing much needed shade on a hot day, the lawn area was sunny not shaded. Actually, the reflection of the sun on the newer glass towers provided additional light! A very active, well used, park!
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

^^ One of my favorite pit-stops in NYC.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

atlantaden said:
Bryant Park in NYC is surrounded by some beautiful new towers along with many older ones...similiar to what surrounds Post Office Square but much, much taller! Half of the park is covered with large Sycamore's providing much needed shade on a hot day, the lawn area was sunny not shaded. Actually, the reflection of the sun on the newer glass towers provided additional light! A very active, well used, park!
Click to expand...

Vastly more density and an absence of other nearby parks will tend to make a public space very well used. Bryant Park has the additional advantage of being well-designed.

None of these factors apply to the Greenway.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

So it begs the question, how do NYC planners allow such tall towers next to a park while Boston planners seem to have shadowphobia? Density doesn't happen if it's not allowed and without density, greenspace/parkland is underused. It seems like a viscious cycle. Quick question, is there now a height limit on new construction bordering Post Office Square?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I'm going to say that part of this is do to the precedant already being set in NYC with tall buildings all around. I do remember (even just recently) someone posting an article about chopping 200 ft off a tower in NYC. So it's not all milk and honey over there either.

That being said, the ridiculousness here is that across the street at 600+ ft. and next door at 400', IP & the harbor towers have already set the precedant here.

Out of scale = bullshit (see above.)

Shadows = bullshit (already exist due to harbor towers and rowe's wharf. Buildings don't need to be tall to cast shadows across a park this narrow.)

"Long shadows on the greenway and harbor." = bullshit (see above, cannot cast "long" shadows across a park 100 feet wide, that's just not long. ) The only possible long shadows would be pointing northward over a part of the greenway that seriously needs shadows. Shadows = shade = much more bearable on a day like this past Monday. Shadows on the harbor??? WTF!!??!! Are the fish residents now? are they complaining?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

^ Yeah, that was Jean Nouvel's MOMA/Hines tower that was reduced by 200 ft.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

well, a 1250 ft tall building cut 200 ft. to 1050 ft is much different than what's going on along the Greenway with building height! At that point, can you even tell the difference, especially by NYC standards?
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

In addition to that, this building is cut by over 500 ft from it's original proposal and to a height that cannot be seen from many vantage points of the city. The MOMA/Hines building can still be seen at 1050ft from many angles.
 
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