Atlantic Wharf (née Russia Wharf) | Atlantic Ave | Waterfront

Re: Atlantic Wharf (formerly Russia Wharf)

I'm sure they are in plenty of other places too -- Dorchester, JP, Rozzie, etc. My list emphasized Cambridge and Somerville only because that's the area I live in and am most familiar with.

(And since when do the Italian caffe places close at 8 pm in the summer? I thought they were open quite late.)
 
Re: Atlantic Wharf (formerly Russia Wharf)

I love Italian people, friend's mother was Italian, used to have me over for Sunday dinners in Winthrop, brewed coffee straight until 11 at night. Got me addicted. They knew all the best places in East Boston, too...some unreal donut place, first time I went to Santarpios...damn I'm off topic.

Ron, I've never heard of those places but you can be guaranteed I'll check at least half of them out by the end of the summer. I can't imagine caffes only being open until 8pm...it would break my heart (I think that's where I was going with the Italian family connection).
 
Re: Atlantic Wharf (formerly Russia Wharf)

Ron Newman said:
(And since when do the Italian caffe places close at 8 pm in the summer? I thought they were open quite late.)
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Oh they are. But after that time they're so mobbed with tourists that it's not worth going. Who wants to stand and wait for a table to get an after-dinner coffee?
 
Re: Atlantic Wharf (formerly Russia Wharf)

Boston Common Coffee on Salem St. is somewhat off the tourist path and is a short walk from you -- but closes at 9 pm.
 
Re: Atlantic Wharf (formerly Russia Wharf)

The thing about independent coffee shops is that many will attract neighborhood locals but only a Starbucks or a Dunkin Donuts can plop down on a spot and find an instant customer base. I have a good independent coffee shop in my neighborhood (Roslindale) but it has changed hands three times in 12 years, which leads me to think it just scrapes by. There is also a decent indie near my office (Columbus Center, sniff) but they were pioneers at a time when Starbucks were still far and few between.

The point is, I go to an independent shop if I know it's good. But if I just want a quick coffee and I'm not in a familiar spot, I'll go for the brand I know. The rent on Atlantic Wharf is only going to allow a big player to succeed.
 
Re: Atlantic Wharf (formerly Russia Wharf)

The rent on Atlantic Wharf is only going to allow a big player to succeed.
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When a waterfront property owner is handed hundreds of millions of $$$ in new density beyond what they bought as of right, we should be raising the bar on the 1st two floors and exterior, not to mention the architecture.

The point being, the rent on the ground floor should be whatever it takes for world-class retail, public and civic space -- not the rent that only a Starbucks can afford.
 
Re: Atlantic Wharf (formerly Russia Wharf)

So the developers should be asked to subsidize something "world class" and unique but still public (i.e. not exclusive by dint of being prohibitively expensive), something which otherwise wouldn't afford the rent on its space...?

Unless you somehow want them to bring in an outlet of Santarpios or something, I'm not sure what you're proposing (or why).
 
Re: Atlantic Wharf (formerly Russia Wharf)

and just as soon as the sign goes up it has come down again.

I will post up the pics tonight. (Well just the starbucks pic)

I wonder why they would have put up the signs to only take them down again ?
Perhaps starbucks has decided not to go in there after all ? ? ?
 
Re: Atlantic Wharf (formerly Russia Wharf)

Shepard said:
So the developers should be asked to subsidize something "world class" and unique but still public (i.e. not exclusive by dint of being prohibitively expensive), something which otherwise wouldn't afford the rent on its space...?

Unless you somehow want them to bring in an outlet of Santarpios or something, I'm not sure what you're proposing (or why).
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If you visited me at City Hall and I approved your waterfront project, increasing your investment by $250m to $500m above what you purchased, and you had been in my office before advocating for public investment in the Rose Kennedy Greenway outside your door, I'd probably ask you to invest in extraordinary architecture, a stunningly grand civic space on the first floor, and yes, possibly subsidize retail rents to attract something better than a Seattle based franchise.

And in return, you could capitalize on 30 floors of new density. It would be a great deal for you, trust me.

So, for starters, you might consider fairly small retail unit sizes, and lots of them, so small local businesses might afford space.

But if you said you'd prefer to put in a Starbucks and Dunkin Donuts on the site, and a private lobby that would wall off an entire City block, and some unusable patches of greenspace, I'd tell you to get the hell out of my office and do whatever you please as-of-right under your existing zoning.

After all, you have a right to do what you want based on what you purchased.
 
Re: Atlantic Wharf (formerly Russia Wharf)

^ let me add, Shepard, this is why I would never make it as Mayor of Boston.
 
Re: Atlantic Wharf (formerly Russia Wharf)

I understand your point, Sicilian, but you seem to be proposing that the disgrace of back-room dealing around zoning can be mitigated by additional back-room dealing around rent subsidies and vague general notions of architectural and public/civic value. But that isn't any sort of mitigation or solution; that's just more of the same problem. The solution here is not to have back-room dealing in the first place. The solution is to have a rational, transparent and apolitical process for zoning. C'est tout.
 
Re: Atlantic Wharf (formerly Russia Wharf)

Shepard said:
I understand your point, Sicilian, but you seem to be proposing that the disgrace of back-room dealing around zoning can be mitigated by additional back-room dealing around rent subsidies and vague general notions of architectural and public/civic value. But that isn't any sort of mitigation or solution; that's just more of the same problem. The solution here is not to have back-room dealing in the first place. The solution is to have a rational, transparent and apolitical process for zoning. C'est tout.
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Zoning describes land use and density. It doesn't enforce standards for architecture or details regarding ground floor uses, etc. I agree with you about sunlight being the best disinfectant, but a planning dept. should be capable of meeting with a developer and arriving at a premium outcome without "dealing" as it is done today, with petty kickbacks, linkages, off-site benefit packages, etc.

Normally, one might suggest that the market should simply be allowed to take care of the problem. But IMO, Boston deserves better.
 
Re: Atlantic Wharf (formerly Russia Wharf)

today driveing around the Greenway
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from High st
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this morning from broadway st bridge
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Re: Atlantic Wharf (formerly Russia Wharf)

The first 2 just need the South Station Towers behind the Federal Reserve at their original proposed height and it would be epic.

Some great shots there.
 
Re: Atlantic Wharf (formerly Russia Wharf)

Even if you don't believe the southern part of the RKG looks the best (it does IMHO) with tall buildings framing the huge open space, you have to admit the Greenway is not in perpetual darkness as some claim it will be if tall buildings are built further North at the Aquarium Garage site.
 
Re: Atlantic Wharf (formerly Russia Wharf)

More?
That would lead one to believe there are any.
Needs some spires.
(Alright I suppose 2 International and the ugly not quite a set of twins on High St. meet the definition.)
 
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