Avalon Exeter | 77 Exeter Street | Back Bay

did those NIMBYs arguing that it doesn't fit in even look at the rendering? note the half dozen buildings surrounding it that are similar in height and the two in the background that are much taller! if anything, this tower could go higher!
 
but how is that a good argument for abrogating a carefully-negotiated agreement?
 
^times change....It was agreed at the ratification of the Bill of Rights that only white men should get the vote. Does that mean that it should still be that way today??
 
I really just don't understand why some people live in a city......
 
What has changed that justifies breaking the agreement?

I'm not saying the agreement is good or bad, but it exists, and whoever wants to modify it should have a good argument.
 
Ron Newman said:
What has changed that justifies breaking the agreement?

I'm not saying the agreement is good or bad, but it exists, and whoever wants to modify it should have a good argument.

I think the developers give good arguments:

enough money for a beneficial project to be economically feasible
money for public improvements
new housing
community benefits, retail instead of a windswept plaza
needed business space and jobs

to name a few.

When the agreement was made all accepted that there would be future building. Why is a slightly taller building such a big deal? Is it really going to result in a lot more wind, shadow, traffic, smog? I think the downside is minimal on these questions, far outweighed by the positives.

The unstated element to the argument is how does the development affect Back Bay property values. My view is probably very little, but if I owned a $2 million home there I would be concerned, probably irrationally.
 
I own a Back Bay property that is worth close to $1M, and I'm delighted. I can't see how increasing employment by 1,600 people within a couple blocks of my condo, and possibly a Bloomingdale's (as has been rumored) could possibly hurt my property's value.

This is NOT pressed up againt the street like the M.O., and the "shadow" effects beyond the actual Pru is negligble. I personally enjoy looking at the Pru from my back Patio, though this building might not even be tall enough to enter my field of view.

Anyone in the Back Bay who is against this project, is against it to maintain the party line.

New white-collar jobs and luxury retail can only help property values by increasing demand.

As far as Avalon Exeter, my impression is that it would be rental, so I can't imagine how thay would negatively affect me, especially considering it would probably rent higher per square foot than I could rent my condo for. If anything, it would help the value in my opinion.

I'm so sick of this city's reactionary tone to all new projects. It's a great city, but allowing some new high-rises adjacent to existinging highER rises does nothing to destroy the fabric of the city, especially considering it is being built where a major train yard was less than a century ago.
 
Good or bad?

Is this a good thing or a bad thing?


During the PruPAC meeting last week, local residents said, "You promised us in the mid-80's that you'd keep any new buildings under 155 feet tall."

The city's response, according to the Boston Courant?

Rodney Sinclair, BRA project manager for the Pru expansion said that the proposed height of the buildings would be evaluated based on contemporary realities.

"I don't know what happened in 1986," he said. "I was 7 then."

That's awesome.
 
tocoto: Wouldn't the smaller building (within the original agreement) provide all those same benefits?
 
Ugh, I don't feel like reading the newspaper anymore. These NIMBY's just pissed the crap out of me and put me in a bad mood.
 
another thing i had a problem with at the meeting.... why the issue over parking? correct me if i am wrong, but aren?t most streets in the back bay (north of boylston) residential or metered parking, thus preventing 9-5er's from parking there? And if these workers do decide to drive in and there is no parking avail in bldg, will they not park at a private garage? And why does it matter to these people? the only reason it would is if they are worried about competition for prime parking, which implies that they have a car, which would be hypocritical for someone in the back bay who drives to argue over parking. how will the expected influx (if the amount of drivers is even near the estimated percentage) affect the residents then?

someone at the meeting also brought up the issue of crowding of the greenline. why is a private development firm expected to solve the issues of the mbta?

i don't know what is more ridiculous; the nibmys, or the fact that the city of boston lets them have this much say.
 
What?

Er, they might not be opposed at all if the owners stayed within the guidelines they agreed to, earlier ...

If the office tower was 155 feet tall, maybe they would support it, or at least have little to argue about ...
 
Re: Prudential Ctr/Exeter St Apartment Tower

This article was in this week's Banker & Tradesman.

One of the residents says she's been there for 28 years, another for 40 years.

Good, they'll be sent off to retirement homes, soon. So don't let them decide what's right for the rest of us!

Proposed Pru Center Project Faces Towering Opposition

Opposition to a pair of proposed towers at Boston?s Prudential Center is mounting.

Tenants in the three luxury apartment buildings at the Pru voted overwhelmingly last Thursday to fight plans for a 19-story glass office tower on Boylston Street and a 30-story residential high-rise on Exeter Street.

?The revolution has begun,? said Celia Sniffin, who has lived at the Pru for nearly 40 years. ?There will be a lot more to come and this is just the opening skirmish in a long war. We intend to organize and get the facts out about this proposal.?

Boston Properties and Avalon Bay Communities have filed a controversial proposal with the Boston Redevelopment Authority that calls for a 438,993-square-foot building at 888 Boylston St., between the Mandarin Oriental Boston Hotel and the John B. Hynes Veterans Memorial Convention. The second project, Avalon Exeter, would be a residential tower on Exeter Street, across from the Boston Public Library.

Nancy Sonnabend organized a tenant petition drive to prevent construction of the two buildings. In a packed meeting of the Prudential Center Residents Association (PCRA) late last week, the longtime resident of the Pru?s Fairfield complex presented 157 signatures in opposition to the development. The letter demands that plans for the Exeter building be withdrawn and that the Boylston Street tower be limited to 11 stories.

?No. No. No. These buildings are too big for the small site they?re on,? said Sonnabend. ?They will cast big shadows on Boylston Street, exacerbate an already traffic-choked section of the city and destroy the light and the views.?

Sonnabend is one of 1,100 residents in three high-rise buildings adjacent to the Prudential Center. The towers, named Gloucester, Boylston and Fairfield, were purchased in 1998 by AvalonBay, a publicly traded real estate investment trust, for $129 million. The buildings at 770, 780 and 790 Boylston St. contain 781 units.

Anthony Selvaggi, PCRA president, did not return a call seeking comment.

Warren Markarian, a member of the association, declined to say how he voted, but acknowledged that there is growing unease about the development.

?The office tower was approved years ago at 11 stories, but now Boston Properties wants 19 stories,? he said. ?The apartment building is a harder sell because people live next door. At first, people questioned whether the Exeter building should be 30 stories; now some tenants don?t want anything built there at all.?

The vote is pivotal for Markarian, the tenants? representative on the Prudential Project Advisory Committee (PruPAC). Former Mayor Raymond Flynn established the 41-member group in the 1980s to advise City Hall on development projects at the Prudential Center. Mayor Thomas M. Menino has told Banker & Tradesman that he intends to take seriously the panel?s recommendation before the project moves forward.

Later this month, PruPAC subcommittees are expected to make recommendations to the full panel on whether to support the project.

?I don?t know how I will vote at PruPAC,? Markarian said. ?It?s clear that there was overwhelming opposition to both buildings among the tenants who attended the meeting. But PruPAC is still gathering information about the project and I haven?t decided which way to vote.?

But Sonnabend insisted that Markarian must reject the project when it comes to a vote at PruPAC.

?He represents the Prudential tenants and he must vote according to our wishes,? she said. ?The mandate is in.?

?Already Impassible?

State Rep. Martha M. Walz, a Back Bay Democrat, said she has heard from many Pru Center residents who have expressed strong opposition to the proposed office tower at 888 Boylston St.

The Boylston Street office building originally was approved by the BRA as a 287,493-square-foot, 11-story tower at the site. But Boston Properties has said that it needs more height to make the project economically viable. The developer is seeking to add 8 stories to the design and needs city approval.

Walz has asked Boston Properties to justify the reasons for the increase in height. Without the added density, the company has said, the developers cannot afford to design and build a plaza.

?The developers said they need additional height to do Class A office space,? she said. ?But Ron Druker plans to build a 120-foot-tall Class A office building on the very same side of the very same street.?

In September, Banker & Tradesman was the first to report that The Druker Co., which owns the former Shreve, Crump & Low building across from the Boston Public Garden, planned to replace the 5-story mid-rise with a new building. Earlier this month, Druker told the BRA that he intends to build a 120-foot building totaling 221,000 square feet at 330-360 Boylston St.

?Druker?s proposal completely undercuts Boston Properties? argument,? Walz said. ?How can Boston Properties say they can?t build at 155 feet when, a few steps away, Druker says he can do high-end office space at 120 feet??

At a packed public hearing at the Boston Public Library last month, many residents of the city?s Back Bay neighborhood said the 19-story glass office tower proposed for Boylston Street is too tall. In addition, they argued that 180 parking spaces are not enough for the 1,600 employees expected to fill the skyscraper. Meanwhile, others pleaded for more time to study the consequences of another tall building that would overlook the historic neighborhood.

So far, none of the developers are talking. Michael A. Cantalupa of Boston Properties declined to comment. Michael Roberts, vice president of development at Avalon, declined to comment. Druker did not return a reporter?s call.

Sonnabend said the fight has just begun.

?Boylston and Exeter Streets are already impassible,? she said. ?The area is looking more and more like [New York?s] midtown Manhattan.?

Source: Proposed Pru Center Project Faces Towering Opposition - By Thomas Grillo, Banker & Tradesman (subscription required)
 
Re: Prudential Ctr/Exeter St Apartment Tower

That's a pretty typical response. Everyone's looking out for themselves... mostly.

The developer want more floors so he can make more money, but says he needs them to make the project "economically viable".

The residents don't want to have their views blocked, and also don't want more traffic, but of course they also complain that the building doesn't have enough parking (wait, won't that mean MORE traffic?!).
 
Re: Prudential Ctr/Exeter St Apartment Tower

Only in Boston.......

A 19 story building is considered to tall even when located directly in front of a 52 story building.
 
Re: Prudential Ctr/Exeter St Apartment Tower

Are there those types of responses in places like NYC, Chicago, SF, Montreal, Toronto, etc.?
 
Re: Prudential Ctr/Exeter St Apartment Tower

If Ms Sonnabend had had her way, the tower that she calls home would never have been built.
 
Re: Prudential Ctr/Exeter St Apartment Tower

Yes, lucky.

Put another way, it's a case of, "I got mine, screw you!"
 
Re: Prudential Ctr/Exeter St Apartment Tower

?Boylston and Exeter Streets are already impassible,? she said. ?The area is looking more and more like [New York?s] midtown Manhattan.?

What!? Seriously? Last time I checked, nothing in Boston looks anything like NY. Street blocks of 500 foot plus condo towers for as far as the eye can see and there are, 3 towers, all well under 400 feet and it's "starting to look more and more like Mid-Town Manhattan!? I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad.
 
Re: Prudential Ctr/Exeter St Apartment Tower

The Boylston St. office building should be exactly the height of Mandarin, and pick up its cornice lines. They'll make a much better ensemble that way.

justin
 

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