Best Urban Shopping Area

[Beton Brut]

...didn't realize the question was snarky...

My questions were out of frustration and a kind of despair for the half-assed city of rubes Boston is becoming. Your thoughts here set me off:

For a few years, Quincy Market would have won this poll; it would have scored ahead of Downtown, Harvard Square and (yes) Newbury Street. Now, it seems, it's strictly for tourists.

We beat up on elitists in America. There's nothing wrong with being better (or saying that you are) as long as there's a sense of inclusion, of altruism behind your assertions. Elitism doesn't necessarily lead to narcissism. It can also lead you to educate and guide. Ben Thompson's Quincy Market, ca. 1978 made Boston better. It was ambitious, and unique, and open to all. Can anyone think of a project in Boston's public realm in the past ~30 years that has equaled it?

Today Quincy Market is a cynical shadow of his vision. Anyone want a lobster plush-toy?

thought you just wanted to hear from someone who was there.

Your recollections are clearer than mine; I was nine, fascinated by Aalto's Paimio Chair before I could find Finland on a map. It looked nothing like the finely-made French Provincial furniture that my folks bought while Sputnik was sailing overhead...

Coulda done worse.

No Stones, or Yardbirds, or Jefferson Airplane at my house. I've caught my dad humming along to "Eleanor Rigby" and "Yesterday," though he has often referred to The Beatles as "a bunch of commies."

Most Bostonians don't know it was ever here.

I thought of saying this, and felt judgmental. Sometimes it doesn't feel good to be right.

 

[ablarc]

We beat up on elitists in America. There's nothing wrong with being better (or saying that you are) as long as there's a sense of inclusion, of altruism behind your assertions. Elitism doesn't necessarily lead to narcissism. It can also lead you to educate and guide.

If you think about it, aren't all teachers elitists trying to get others into the elite? You could say, "Who the hell does this guy think he is, trying to 'improve me'?"; or you could say, "teach me what you know that I don't know."

Today Quincy Market is a cynical shadow of his vision. Anyone want a lobster plush-toy?

It happened gradually; a demonstration of entropy. It was Ben's rules that made it the good thing it was. When those were loosened...

 

[ablarc]

Nowadays, does any sane person buy into a 'vision of a shining future'?

Barack Obama?

The folks who voted for him?

("Hope" and "change"?)

 

[czsz]

In the early 90s when my parents first visited Boston they returned home to the Great Lakes a-twitter about the market and Au Bon Pain and Crate & Barrel and the sophistication of Boston. I guess it still had the power to enchant the uninitiated, then.

The city's design/culture-industrial complex seems to have rested on its laurels from that era. You no longer find Boston on any chic travelers' to-do lists. It's at best a repository for trends that have already played out in places like New York and LA. It dazzles only those who have never emerged from Vermont.

 

[ablarc]

Boston has lost its dynamism, and it's getting drab.

When I get a few days off to go visit a city, I'm generally drawn to New York.

Boston needs to revitalize its spirit; it's a sad thing when its biggest draw is Cheers.

.

 

[czsz]

Even Cheers (at least, the original Bull & Finch) is closing (or is already closed).

 

[Ron Newman]

Huh? I read that they laid off a bartender or two, but not that they are closing.

 

[czsz]

Oh, whoops. The headline read "for Boston institution, closing credits roll"...I didn't realize the institution was the bartender himself!

 

[kennedy]

Boston has lost its dynamism, and it's getting drab.

When I get a few days off to go visit a city, I'm generally drawn to New York.

Boston needs to revitalize its spirit; it's a sad thing when its biggest draw is Cheers.

.

Yes.

 

[belmont square]

Boston has lost its dynamism, and it's getting drab.

When I get a few days off to go visit a city, I'm generally drawn to New York.

Boston needs to revitalize its spirit; it's a sad thing when its biggest draw is Cheers.

.

A little spirit revitalization wouldn't hurt, but you've gone a bit far with this post. Cheers is not the biggest, or even a big draw. The city is not drab compared to what it looked like when I arrived in 1994, as numerous neighborhoods have been gentrified and seen their 19th century housing stock restored. The city is more diverse than it has ever been, both in terms of overall makeup of the city and the faces one sees on the subway and streets of the central business district.

As much of a booster of Boston as I am, I'd visit NYC over Boston about 10 times to 1. Then again, NYC is 10 times larger than Boston so I'm not sure that's much of an indictment. If you were choosing San Diego or Houston or Seattle than I guess I'd be more concerned.

 

[czsz]

I think the city was drab in a different way in 1994. It was still a tiny bit gritty then. So much of central Boston has been power-washed to death since. Now its drabness is the drabness of a mauve, antiseptic hospital wall - a fitting metaphor for a city that is increasingly banking on biotech.

It's become way more diverse but so little of that diversity touches the city center - at least, beyond Downtown Crossing. "Majority-minority" Boston is, for the most part, sequestered in the "gray areas" below the South End that the T serves as poorly as the RER serves the suburbs of Paris.

As much of a booster of Boston as I am, I'd visit NYC over Boston about 10 times to 1. Then again, NYC is 10 times larger than Boston so I'm not sure that's much of an indictment. If you were choosing San Diego or Houston or Seattle than I guess I'd be more concerned.

This is all very true, but there are cities in Europe that are Boston's size (or much smaller than Boston) that pack plenty of big cultural punch. Why is Copenhagen such a design center, and not Boston, for example? Visitors come, are surprised by the lack of innovation (the kind that doesn't involve test tubes or circuit boards) or vivacity on the streets, wonder about the bewilderment caused here by modes of expression like innocent street art, and ask me, rhetorically, "this is a university city?"

 

[belmont square]

A much more defensible critique!

I too miss the lost grit in sections of the city center, but since I live in Eastie now I have enough to spare in my own hood. Again, probably as a function of where I live, the city's new diversity seems to be all around me--and my tiny island of a neighborhood is served well by a rapid transit line (5 subway stations).

I wish Boston could do more to mimic the energy of Copenhagen and other medium sized European cities. According to those with longer memories than me on this board, at one time we were the envy of many of these places. I'm not sure how much EU citizenship has changed mobility over there, but my guess is that leaving Denmark for another European country is still (for reasons of logistics and national pride) a more difficult choice for a Copenhagen native than for a metro-Boston native considering a move to NYC or SF.

I'd also be interested to learn how we compare with places like Lyon or Manchester, cities that are located within 250 miles of a truly world class mega-city (Paris and London, respectively, with NYC for us) within their own nation. Are these places better at keeping their local creative and entrepreneurial talent from decamping to the BIG CITY than we are?

 

[Justin7]

Boston has lost its dynamism, and it's getting drab.

When I get a few days off to go visit a city, I'm generally drawn to New York.

Boston needs to revitalize its spirit; it's a sad thing when its biggest draw is Cheers.

.

The people who come to Boston to see Cheers are the same people who go to NYC to see Times Square and CATS.

 

[underground]

Oh look! Another thread devolving into idiotic Boston bashing. Again, I'd love to see some evidence that isn't anectodal, because the big picture is much different than what's being presented here. I mean seriously, a guy from out of town who thinks that all Boston has to offer is Cheers is claiming that the city's drabber than it used to be. Someone's got a seriously rose colored time machine if they think that's true!

Thanks God Spring's coming. I think this board needs some serious vitamin D to get over its collective Seasonal Effectivness.

 

[underground]

This is all very true, but there are cities in Europe that are Boston's size (or much smaller than Boston) that pack plenty of big cultural punch. Why is Copenhagen such a design center, and not Boston, for example? Visitors come, are surprised by the lack of innovation (the kind that doesn't involve test tubes or circuit boards) or vivacity on the streets, wonder about the bewilderment caused here by modes of expression like innocent street art, and ask me, rhetorically, "this is a university city?"

Dude, this is just a rediculus statement, on a number of levels. First of all, compairing an American city to a Eurpopean city is a non-starter. It's just not gonna happen. Second, even if you were going to try, out of all American cities, Boston would rank either at or near the top. Third, I'd love to see actual data comparing Copenhagen's design industry to Boston's because I have a feeling that it'd be much smaller. Copenhagen, not to mention Denmark is general, is incredibly small population wise and Ikea alone does not make an industry (plus IKEA is Swedish). Fourth, complaining about Boston because of a precieved lack of one particular industry is pretty lame. Not every place can have ever industry, and there's absolutely zero wrong with that. Fifth, I doubt that Boston even lacks that particular industry and I'd love to see some actual data on it. There are plenty of schools churning out designers around here and there are plenty of boutiques selling local designers. I can think of at least 4 off the top of my head in the North End alone, and I'm a heterosexual male! Furthermore, that's not even counting the South End or dozens of other places in Boston and the greater Boston area. Sixth, how any one in their right mind can complain about Boston's tech boom, especially in the life sciences, is beyond me. Looking back at Boston throughout it's history, the city has boomed when its economy has shifted to new technology, and those booms in turn financed the cultural institutions that we all enjoy. Seventh, the city lacks street vivacity? REALLY? Where the hell are YOU? Not to belabor the point or call you out, but aren't you the one who was wondering why no one was in the Financial District on a Sunday afternoon? Jesus, this complaining that there's nothing to do in the city is driving me nuts. Pick up a damn Phoenix or read through the show and event listings on Lemmingtrail.

Sorry for the rant, but the board has gotten ridiculous lately. Did everyone's Xanex run out?

Also, sorry I'm a wicked horrible speller.

 

[ablarc]

Underground, you have a habit of putting absurd statements in people's mouths and then arguing with the absurd statements. You should stop doing that, because it's obnoxious, solipsistic, and a conversation killer.

 

[underground]

Why are you going ad hominim, dude? You said, "Boston has lost its dynamism, and it's getting drab," followed by, "Boston needs to revitalize its spirit; it's a sad thing when its biggest draw is Cheers," and I'm calling you out because those are patintly rediculous things to say. Simple as that. If you want to present a rebuttle, that'd be great. As for what CZ said, I responded directly to his point. If he wants to present the counter argument, that'd be great too.

 

[czsz]

Well, you did seem to attack me over IKEA, whereas you were the one who brought it up. I wouldn't say it really exemplifies the design industry at all, actually. My apartment is almost nothing but IKEA, but my nicest piece of furniture is a small bookshelf from Crate & Barrel (I've gotten some nicer stuff at Boston Interiors, too).

I don't see why Boston can't be compared to European cities - why not have a higher standard of excellence than Minneapolis or Dallas-Fort Worth? In fact, there are plenty of European cities that Boston is comparable. I found Hamburg to be the most Boston-like city in Europe because it's also superficially prosperous but culturally sterile - a shadow of what it was even in the 70s.

I wasn't complaining that Boston doesn't have design schools or design stores or local designers who show in them. The problem with Boston is not that it doesn't have anything, really. It's that what it does have is provincial - independent locals who haven't broken out of regional reputations, or else colonization by the branch outlets of chains. The city isn't really happening to the extent that people want to come here to soak up some new movement in...not just design, but anything. It's self-sustaining, but it's not really a draw...for anything new, that is.

And the life sciences boom is wonderful for the economy, but it doesn't really lend itself to the city's cultural scene as much as a boom in the local design industry or art world would. (Not to mention...when was the last time Genzyme and co. sponsored the city's cultural life in the way its depleting local financial institutions traditionally have?)

I read the Phoenix and the Weekly Dig and there's no doubt in my mind that plenty is going on...if you search for it. But what if you're not? After all, what great city can only be found hidden away in listings? What if you land in Boston and simply walk the streets, aimlessly? They don't have the energy they used to.

 

[ablarc]

all Boston has to offer is Cheers

You said it, I didn't.

 

[commuter guy]

I found Hamburg to be the most Boston-like city in Europe because it's also superficially prosperous but culturally sterile - a shadow of what it was even in the 70s.

I can see your point regarding Hamburg. Do you think the reunification of Germany and the resurgence of Berlin's status again has had any impact on Hamburg?