Boston 2024

[MBTAddict]

I'd like Boston for 2026.

This opens up a question - is Boston better suited for the summer or winter games?

 

[davem]

This opens up a question - is Boston better suited for the summer or winter games?

Winter, but that won't get us a new subway

 

[Matthew]

Nothing is going to get us a new subway until we figure out why the costs are so completely out of control. A billion dollars per km can be managed in NYC (though it still sucks), but it is never going to pencil out here.

 

[hockey92]

Id love to see the winter olymics in Boston but what could Boston offer? We've got arenas around for skating, hockey and curling, but is 3 hours away from any reasonably sized mountains close enough? might as well be called the New England olympics at that point

 

[bigeman312]

Winter.

If we take the Olympics to not be a competition of cities, but rather a competition of nations (hard to do in provincial areas such as these), 'muricans should want the most capable city in the USA to host. For summer games that is clearly not Boston. Arguing Boston, Dallas, Philadelphia, Houston, Atlanta or DC is valid. When it comes down to it though, we all know Chicago, NYC and LA are better cities to represent the USA at a Summer Olympics than Boston. At least for now; maybe in 90 years that won't be the case but it will be the case in 2024.

Winter Olympics is a different story. The argument can be made for Boston over any of these cities. Here, Boston could actually be a great way to represent our country.

 

[Equilibria]

This opens up a question - is Boston better suited for the summer or winter games?

In theory, winter, but NH and VT don't really have the guaranteed snow for it. Also, can't use dorms as housing for athletes and visitors during the school year.

Madrid is contending for 2020 (along with Tokyo and Istanbul). I don't see a reason why a loser wouldn't bid again for 2024 - especially Tokyo.

Tokyo would be handicapped in 2024 for the same reason they are for 2020: East Asia will host in 2018. North America hasn't hosted a Summer Olympics since 1996, while East Asia hosted in 2008.

Could you imagine making an argument that Boston could better support the Olympics than Tokyo?

The argument is not that Boston is a better host than Tokyo, it's that North America is a more deserving host than East Asia, and that the US is a better host than Japan. Boston would be America's candidate city, as pre-selected by the USOC. That means that the full weight of the nation would be behind it, in the same way it was for Chicago last time.

If it goes to the United States, I hope it goes to Chicago, L.A. or NYC. I like Boston more than those cities for many reasons, but it would be an inferior selection for hosting a huge international sporting event to represent out country.

Sure, but none of those 3 cities have any intention of bidding. The USOC wants LA, but there's been no indication they're interested. Chicago felt deeply insulted by the way the IOC treated their 2016 bid and wants nothing to do with them, and NYC feels similarly about their 2012 bid experience (the death of which killed the West Side Stadium proposal and kept the Jets in New Jersey, neither of which city leaders are likely to forget).

In terms of size and history, the best comparison would be if Brazil won a bid with Salvador as the host city. It was the colonial capital and has great history. It is considered a great city to live in, but obviously Rio or Sao Paulo would be better choices to host due to their size. By the way, Salvador is comparable to Boston in size, while Sao Paulo is around NYC's size and Rio de Janeiro between L.A. and Chicago in size.

Well, actually Rio is twice the size of either LA or Chicago and Sao Paulo is significantly larger than New York, but that's not the point. The difference between Boston and Salvador da Bahia is that Boston, by virtue of its educational institutions and proximity to Europe, has a massive international profile. People in most countries, when told that Boston was awarded the Olympics, would have heard quite a bit about it. Obviously it doesn't have the prominence of New York, but I bet it matches Chicago if you ask around in Argentina or Indonesia... or France.

 

[bigeman312]

Id love to see the winter olymics in Boston but what could Boston offer? We've got arenas around for skating, hockey and curling, but is 3 hours away from any reasonably sized mountains close enough? might as well be called the New England olympics at that point

Nearly all Olympics are somewhat regional. They certainly don't stay within the host municipality's borders. NYC's bid had events proposed from DC to Foxborough, and many in CT and NJ. Atlanta had events all over the southwest.

Wachusett (945 feet tall) is an hour and a quarter from Downtown Boston, and could host many of the events.

Sunapee (1440 feet tall) and Gunstock (1291) are an hour and three quarters from Downtown Boston, and could probably handle what Wachusett can't.

For good measure, Loon, Waterville Valley and Cannon all have over 2000 feet of vertical drop and are about 2 and a quarter hours from Boston (I'm a ski buff), so there is no need to drive 3 hours. Those three are in the 10 tallest ski areas in the Eastern half of the USA. All under 2.5 hours from Boston. Very doable.

 

[bigeman312]

In theory, winter, but NH and VT don't really have the guaranteed snow for it.

Very few places have the guaranteed snow. NH and VT would be fine with current snow making technology.

Also, can't use dorms as housing for athletes and visitors during the school year.

Small obstacle. Give incentives for the schools to provide them and they will easily shift their winter breaks by a week if necessary (which it may not be). Many students change rooms over winter, especially when you consider semesters abroad. Not saying this is the best solution, but a solution exists.

Tokyo would be handicapped in 2024 for the same reason they are for 2020: East Asia will host in 2018. North America hasn't hosted a Summer Olympics since 1996, while East Asia hosted in 2008.

The argument is not that Boston is a better host than Tokyo, it's that North America is a more deserving host than East Asia

I don't buy this. Nobody was making this argument when Europe and North America were hosting back to back olympics. I think this is just an argument that East Asia is less than North America or Europe, which is no longer true economically, and certainly not true demographically.

Sure, but none of those 3 cities have any intention of bidding. The USOC wants LA, but there's been no indication they're interested. Chicago felt deeply insulted by the way the IOC treated their 2016 bid and wants nothing to do with them, and NYC feels similarly about their 2012 bid experience (the death of which killed the West Side Stadium proposal and kept the Jets in New Jersey, neither of which city leaders are likely to forget).

Fair points I hadn't considered. You're probably right, but that's a shame. I hope this sentiment, if it exists, does not last. If you want to host, and are capable, keep proposing bids!

Well, actually Rio is twice the size of either LA or Chicago and Sao Paulo is significantly larger than New York, but that's not the point. The difference between Boston and Salvador da Bahia is that Boston, by virtue of its educational institutions and proximity to Europe, has a massive international profile. People in most countries, when told that Boston was awarded the Olympics, would have heard quite a bit about it. Obviously it doesn't have the prominence of New York, but I bet it matches Chicago if you ask around in Argentina or Indonesia... or France.

I was referring to the much more relevant urban are population.

Sorry to cite wikipedia, but:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_urban_areas_by_population

The figures I gave are accurate according to Demographia.

 

[hockey92]

Well, yea then I'd much rather see winter olympics in Boston way more fun to watch in my opinion

 

[Equilibria]

Very few places have the guaranteed snow. NH and VT would be fine with current snow making technology.

Well, both Vancouver and Sochi have had serious issues with snowmaking, and those are in famous winter vacation locales. I don't think the IOC would be ready to take a gamble on 900-foot peaks when they could have the thing in the Alps. Just sayin'...

Small obstacle. Give incentives for the schools to provide them and they will easily shift their winter breaks by a week if necessary (which it may not be). Many students change rooms over winter, especially when you consider semesters abroad. Not saying this is the best solution, but a solution exists.

Not remotely a small obstacle. Frankly, the best solution for an Olympic Park in Boston is to get 1 school with enough capacity (say, BU or Harvard if the stadium is in Allston) to host the entire athletes' village on their campus. The Winter Olympics are traditionally held in February (in the Northern Hemisphere, which is the only one to host them thus far). Are you seriously promoting the idea that Harvard's winter break be the month of February in 2026 instead of at Christmas? I don't think that works... plus, the lack of students over the summer leaves a lot of other dorm facilities, restaurant capacity, T capacity, etc. more open than it would be in the winter.

I don't buy this. Nobody was making this argument when Europe and North America were hosting back to back olympics. I think this is just an argument that East Asia is less than North America or Europe, which is no longer true economically, and certainly not true demographically.

North America and Europe haven't done this. The Olympic Games beginning in 1994, when the Winter Olympics was offset and given equal weight, have been awarded to: Lillehammer (Europe), Atlanta (North America), Nagano (East Asia), Sydney (Australia), Salt Lake City (North America), Athens (Europe), Torino (Europe), Beijing (East Asia), Vancouver (North America), London (Europe), Sochi (Europe/Asia/Middle East/WTF), Rio (South America), Pyongchang (East Asia), and Istanbul or Tokyo (Asia).

The only back-to-back games hosted by any region in that time has been 2004/2006 in Europe, when Athens was awarded the games out of respect for the Greek origin of the Olympics as opposed to geographic parity. By 2024, the Summer Games will have been in Europe twice (2004 and 2012), South America and Australia once (2000 and 2016) and Asia twice (2008 and 2020) since North America last hosted. It's our turn, and it has nothing to do with the "worthiness" of different regions of the world.

 

[bigeman312]

...the best solution for an Olympic Park in Boston is to get 1 school with enough capacity (say, BU or Harvard if the stadium is in Allston) to host the entire athletes' village on their campus. The Winter Olympics are traditionally held in February (in the Northern Hemisphere, which is the only one to host them thus far). Are you seriously promoting the idea that Harvard's winter break be the month of February in 2026 instead of at Christmas?

No. Of course I am not promoting moving Harvard's winter break to February. That would be very foolish.

4 Winter Olympics have started in January and ours could too. There is no reason why the Olympics couldn't be January 15-28 for example. Also, why in the world would you pick Harvard? They would be the last school in the area that would be willing to negotiate.

BU on the other hand has more dorm rooms, would have more to gain by housing athletes and usually returns from break in mid January. All it would take is BU extending their winter break by a couple weeks and bam, housing for most (if not all) of the olympic village.

EDIT: Harvard gets back from winter break on January 26 this year. It doesn't take much moving on Harvard's part, to fit the winter olympics within Harvard's winter break.

 

[Equilibria]

Also, why in the world would you pick Harvard? They would be the last school in the area that would be willing to negotiate

I'd negotiate with Harvard for a Summer Games because the last serious Boston Olympic bid study cited their property in Allston as a likely site for the stadium (they were entirely supportive of that study, IIRC), and I personally think their property at Beacon Park (purchased since then) would make an excellent location for a stadium and other venues in 2024. If so much is located on Harvard land already, why not sell an athletes' village at Harvard Yard? It's classy.

Harvard gets plenty from that arrangement, particularly as the Commonwealth might cover the relocation of the A/B tolls that makes their land usable long-term. As is, they'd probably have to pay the couple hundred million dollars in infrastructure costs there.

That's not to say BU isn't a good choice - it's next-door to the railyard and has great dorms and athletic facilities.

It also doesn't really matter if a Winter Olympics were to be held in Jan or Feb. If dorms are going to house athletes, then the student residents of said dorms would have to completely move out for Winter Break for the rooms to be usable. Where does their stuff go? In the summer, the buildings are empty and clean.

 

[davem]

Any reasonable bid should make heavy use of Harvards land, as well as BU's adjacent facilities. Then across the river you have magazine beach and MITs athletic facilities. You could probably host the majority of events in this one triangle of the city, without too much new construction other then that which was going to happen anyway.

BU in particular would be great for housing athletes, their new dorms are stunning. Also remember, Harvard Stadium in the past seated almost 60k, and Nickerson seated 40k when it was Braves Field.

 

[bigeman312]

I'd negotiate with Harvard for a Summer Games because the last serious Boston Olympic bid study cited their property in Allston as a likely site for the stadium (they were entirely supportive of that study, IIRC), and I personally think their property at Beacon Park (purchased since then) would make an excellent location for a stadium and other venues in 2024. If so much is located on Harvard land already, why not sell an athletes' village at Harvard Yard? It's classy.

Harvard gets plenty from that arrangement, particularly as the Commonwealth might cover the relocation of the A/B tolls that makes their land usable long-term. As is, they'd probably have to pay the couple hundred million dollars in infrastructure costs there.

That's not to say BU isn't a good choice - it's next-door to the railyard and has great dorms and athletic facilities.

It also doesn't really matter if a Winter Olympics were to be held in Jan or Feb. If dorms are going to house athletes, then the student residents of said dorms would have to completely move out for Winter Break for the rooms to be usable. Where does their stuff go? In the summer, the buildings are empty and clean.

There are some questions to be answered. You and I can both speculate (consolidate student belongings into one fifth of the rooms to use as storage while freeing the others up, have students move out as if it were summer break, etc.) all day long. I believe these problems are solvable for the Winter Olympics. I also believe the city's lack of size/infrastructure is not solvable for the Summer Olympics.

You bring up valid concerns. I believe they could be addressed. Thanks for indulging me, but I am not big on un-winnable internet arguments. Also, I had not considered the Harvard angle from a venue standpoint for the Winter games.

 

[Proposition Joe]

Boston is not near enough to mountains, and more importantly the drops required for the Olympics' ski events, to host the Winter Games. Summer Games or Youth Olympic Games are the only available options.

 

[JohnAKeith]

EDITED.

Regarding the "snow" issue, they are already dealing with this in Sochi, "which enjoys a subtropical environment" according to this article.

They're storing snow in preparation for next year.

MOSCOW, June 29 (R-Sport) – The head of Russia's Olympic committee insists that there will be no snow deficit for the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi.

Russia has tried to calm fears that unseasonably warm weather could spoil the country's first Winter Games and is storing huge quantities of snow in refrigerated reservoirs.

"There will be no problems with snow," the president of Russia’s Olympic Committee Alexander Zhukov said Saturday. "The Olympics in Sochi will go ahead in any weather. In the mountain region this year a certain reserve of snow has already been gathered," he said.

"I'm confident that we will be able to hold all the mountain disciplines."

Some test events, including stages of the Cup of Russia Nordic combined event, had to be cancelled this winter due to balmy temperatures.

The city of Sochi on the Black Sea enjoys a subtropical environment, but the outdoors events for the Winter Olympics will take place in the mountains above the coast.

Some 450,000 cubic meters of snow has been held in reserve, awaiting deployment next February when the Games begin. At cost of some 250 million rubles ($8 million) it is stored in seven special on-site reservoirs, the largest of which has a capacity of 100,000 cubic meters.

http://en.rian.ru/sports/20130629/181951933.html

 

[JohnAKeith]

"Let's vote on both!"

 

[underground]

Not sure working with currently available spaces like Harvard and BU makes sense. It'll probably have to be all new, probably in areas where redevelopment is already being discussed (or planned for). That probably gives us 4 spots:

1) Old CSX Yard - could involve a joint Harvard, BU, MBTA, MassDOT project to straighten the Pike, build out the Harvard and BU properties, and construct the Urban Ring through the area (or close to it).

2) Newmarket - redeveloping that area's been on the table for a long time. Could involve some sort of sinking the highway and Urban Ring construction.

3) The Inner Belt - also an area that's been on the redevelopment table. Could involve GLX and yard, McGrath and Rutherford Ave redesign simultaneously, and maybe give an impetus to work on some 93 N improvements.

4) The Everett Waterfront - Urban Ring comes up again. Maybe an Orange Line extension/restoration too. The potential casino could be a hurdle... or help?

 

[choo]

^If Suffolk Downs doesn't get a casino, I am going to assume the horse track only limps along for a few years. That being the case, that area would be a great area for some dense development right on the T and close to downtown, but also relatively easy to secure during the event.

I also think the CSX yard would be good for similar reasons. And any area that would jumpstart valuable infrastructure spending would be great. Living <1mile from Harvard Sq. this would probably benefit me the most.

 

[Equilibria]

1) Old CSX Yard - could involve a joint Harvard, BU, MBTA, MassDOT project to straighten the Pike, build out the Harvard and BU properties, and construct the Urban Ring through the area (or close to it).

2) Newmarket - redeveloping that area's been on the table for a long time. Could involve some sort of sinking the highway and Urban Ring construction.

3) The Inner Belt - also an area that's been on the redevelopment table. Could involve GLX and yard, McGrath and Rutherford Ave redesign simultaneously, and maybe give an impetus to work on some 93 N improvements.

4) The Everett Waterfront - Urban Ring comes up again. Maybe an Orange Line extension/restoration too. The potential casino could be a hurdle... or help?

There's only so many places in Boston for a stadium to go, and Beacon Park (1) and Suffolk Downs are 2 of those places. I assume that the report due next year now will identify the latter on their list of stadium sites, not sure about the former. I'd expect them to check out the South Boston Waterfront as well. Beacon Park really is the best site for the stadium I can think of, with development following after the Games. Suffolk Downs does have Blue Line access, but I'm not sure the only horse track in Boston is losing enough money to close within 10 years.

For the village, I doubt they'll do something as inaccessible as Everett. Maybe a transit extension, but I doubt it. Inner Belt is a legit possibility (using whatever portion of North Point remains undeveloped), but I really think a college campus like Harvard or BU works well for this. Every previous study of a Boston Olympics has assumed such a plan, and prior hosts have had nerve-racking delays in building their athlete housing (not to mention difficulty in making money off it post-Olympics). Why do you think that won't work?