Boston 2024

Boston 2024 is an Olympic Organizing Committee so yes it should shut down for this go around.

Where is the rule that says an Olympic Organizing Committee must forever remain an Olympic Organizing Committee?

Boston 2024 is a collection of powerful and wealthy MA citizens with a very strong interest in Boston's growth and prosperity. Note that none of the infrastructure and redevelopment goals outlined in the bid actually required the Olympics to come to town.
 
West, the $250 million could be used to buy premiums to indemnify against losses. On that basis, the $250 million would buy more coverage, how much more would depend on the underwriter's gauging of the risk.
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The San Francisco Organizing Committee has initiated discussions with LA on putting forth a joint bid. A joint bid expands the population base from the standpoint of ticketbuyers, and ensures that all the revenue from ticket sales at all venues stays in-state.

In Boston's bid, only the finals in basketball and soccer were in/near Boston. Most of the soccer would have been played outside of Massachusetts, and basketball?

A joint LA/SFO bid would also give more choice with respect to golf courses, and baseball diamonds. And you could send the more Asian-oriented sports up to San Francisco, and play them in bigger venues.
 
West, the $250 million could be used to buy premiums to indemnify against losses. On that basis, the $250 million would buy more coverage, how much more would depend on the underwriter's gauging of the risk.
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The San Francisco Organizing Committee has initiated discussions with LA on putting forth a joint bid. A joint bid expands the population base from the standpoint of ticketbuyers, and ensures that all the revenue from ticket sales at all venues stays in-state.

In Boston's bid, only the finals in basketball and soccer were in/near Boston. Most of the soccer would have been played outside of Massachusetts, and basketball?

A joint LA/SFO bid would also give more choice with respect to golf courses, and baseball diamonds. And you could send the more Asian-oriented sports up to San Francisco, and play them in bigger venues.

I don't dispute that this $250M would buy double the insurance coverage that B2024 was contemplating. However, while there are many types of things that can be covered by insurance, the various industry feedback on the B2024 plan made clear that the really big gaps will never get covered. All insurers, on policies for any insured item / contract / risk category, will strictly define a baseline and will strictly exclude a long list of things. So, one type of uninsurable risk is any gap between the penciled in estimates and the actual contracts that get signed. If you thought a velodrome would be $300M and the contracts come in at $350, that $50 will be yours. Even more so, no insurer will ever insure against scope creep, in which the local committee or the USOC or the IOC or a combination of the three start adding to scope.

Those two risks come into the billions of $, and can only be averted by having trustworthy stewards in charge of the show. Insurers do NOT insure against baseline self-delusion in advance of actual contracts, and do NOT insure against scope creep.

Consider London: how many cities on this planet can you name with deeper and broader strength in the insurance industry? Either very few or none. Do you really think the organizing committee and City of London didn't have those talks with insurers? Of course they did, and I believe there were a variety of policies taken out, some of which have been called upon. But have you seen any assertions that "hey, never mind those billions of pounds of overruns, we're collecting every pence of it from the insurers?'" No such assertions are being made.

The IOC knows all this, and can explain it better than I can. Hence they demand the limitless backing of a government, the bigger the better, putting its full faith and credit and full taxing powers on the line, with absolutely no upper bounds. If a local committee has insurance, too, fine and dandy, but until the glorious day returns when the IOC is stuck with exactly one bidder for a given year, they will demand nothing less than a limitless guarantee from a government. They got it from Tokyo on 2020 (ahhh, but see the back tracking on it by PM Abe..., notwithstanding his staffers' pseudo-apology in Kuala Lumpur?). They'll get it from either Almaty or more probably Beijing (if the latter and if they really are in eco-meltdown mode, it'll be fun to watch if they pull an Abe on the IOC). It looks like at least Paris is getting ready to give it to them for 2024 (though I've got a hunch another slap down might be coming from those pesky Northern Germans, who I am sure followed the 2022-related debates down in Southern Germany).

Everything you say about the SF / LA cooperation idea sounds sensible. I lived in the SF Bay Area from 83 to 89, and relations between NorCal and SoCal were anything but sensible, up to and including talk of secession. The secession talk was each muttering darkly about seceding from the other half, not from the US, and I remember more of it from NorCal than from SoCal. It was not all in jest. Maybe it's all happy now, I don't claim to know. But, again, the way you describe it makes sense. It would warm my heart to see them get along nicely with one another.
 
Where is the rule that says an Olympic Organizing Committee must forever remain an Olympic Organizing Committee?

Probably in their charter someplace. I don't disagree with the idea of a non government organization that advocates for city and regional planning beyond the usual special interests, but Boston 2024 was narrowly focused and includes a narrow subset of the people that should come together for that sort of thing. Also, a lot of work for no pay without a funding source.

Boston 2024 is a collection of powerful and wealthy MA citizens with a very strong interest in Boston's growth and prosperity. Note that none of the infrastructure and redevelopment goals outlined in the bid actually required the Olympics to come to town.

Which is the reason why the Olympics didn't come to town. Like I said earlier, I hope to see Columbia Point/Bayside get redeveloped along the lines of what Boston 2024 put forward. That can actually move forward more easily now that Boston 2024 is out of the picture. That was UMass' plan anyway.
 
The Tulsa Organizing Committee had a link to the post-Olympics report for the Atlanta games. Very long document, and quite interesting. Tulsa said the report on the London games was not yet available.
http://library.la84.org/6oic/OfficialReports/1996/1996v1.pdf

Atlanta had a very small 'profit'; probably fair to say Atlanta would have lost significant money without baseball. Here are the ticket sales by sport (in thousands) for Atlanta.

Football (soccer) 1256
Athletics (track and field) 1135
Baseball 1134
Basketball 1068
Volleyball 508 (indoor)
Athletic Gymnastics 474 (Other gymnastics 119)
Equestrian 355
Field Hockey 282
Handball 187
Swimming and Diving 180
Tennis 162
Lowest attendance was yachting 8 (thousand).

Atlanta sold 8.4 million tickets, London (without baseball) sold 8.2 million.
Boston projected selling 7.1 million tickets for venues in Greater Boston; adding 600,000 tickets for golf and rugby (which were not in London); and selling 1.4 million tickets in regional NE corridor cities for soccer, basketball, baseball. Total tickets for Boston were 9.1 million; total projected revenue was $1.25 billion; average price per ticket was $135.

Of the revenue streams in the B24 bid, the revenue projection from ticket sales was probably on the shakiest ground. Revenue reflects venue seating capacities, and Boston, for many venues, had not identified the site, or the capacity. Three of the four sports with the highest attendance in Atlanta were to have some/most contests far from Boston, but these venues and their seating were never identified by B24.

The last LA games had $747 million in revenue, $514 million in expenses.
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B24 budgeted $128 million in insurance premiums, spanning a range of rather traditional coverages. However, bonding and sureties to ensure cost and schedule performance by the two Master Developers were the responsibility of the Master Developers. The Master Developers had to include these performance bonds and sureties in their responses to the RFP. Whether they could secure such, particularly in the case of the stadium platform, is another matter. It would be somewhat akin to the General Services Administration seeking a design-build developer for a new FBI building, and requiring the developer to first buy the land and relocate any owners/occupants of the purchased land, and to complete construction by a firm fixed completion date, with a capped cost, and paying for all the performance bonds too.
 
A much closer vote than I would've guessed, 44-40, but as expected, Beijing will host the 2022 Winter Games.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/winter-olympics/33730477

Here's some industrial grade BS:

The International Olympic Committee (IOC) said that Beijing was awarded the Games because it fitted its new agenda for a "stronger focus on sustainability, legacy, and transparency".

At the downhill venues, they're going to be piping the water in to make the fake snow. Now THAT is sustainability for ya.

And would the PRC government ever fail to be perfectly transparent in all details along the way?

Nooooooooo
 
China's already spending themselves stupid into debt and bulging a nice bubble economy. I guess this splurge says a lot about how self-aware they are about the short/mid-term economic sustainability. Still by far the fastest-growing economy on earth and figures to continue long-term on that path, but that bulging bubble is in for one nasty, nasty crash in the near-term from the extreme overheating in their current spending. And that crash may well coincide with prep for the 2022 Games.
 
China's already spending themselves stupid into debt and bulging a nice bubble economy. I guess this splurge says a lot about how self-aware they are about the short/mid-term economic sustainability. Still by far the fastest-growing economy on earth and figures to continue long-term on that path, but that bulging bubble is in for one nasty, nasty crash in the near-term from the extreme overheating in their current spending. And that crash may well coincide with prep for the 2022 Games.

Absolutely. But I don't think the IOC thinks like that, they're too short-sighted. In the here and now, Beijing looks more rock solid than Almaty on finances. And a Games in Beijing doesn't need to be constantly looking across the border nervously at Vladimir Putin as would a Games in Almaty.

If the crash does hit prior to 2022, which seems increasingly likely, the IOC might get a really nasty comeuppance. If the crisis is bad enough, the PRC bosses will delete venues, high-speed rail links, etc, whatever. If they feel they need to, it will vanish from the budget. It'll make Tokyo 2020's budgetary backtracking look like child's play by comparison (and as an aside, I thought Tokyo 2020's "apology" to the IOC this week was a classic of the genre of polite "screw you" wrapped in a cloak of non-apology). Thomas Bach can throw whatever temper tantrum he wants, the people running the PRC won't give a shit.
 
China's already spending themselves stupid into debt and bulging a nice bubble economy. I guess this splurge says a lot about how self-aware they are about the short/mid-term economic sustainability. Still by far the fastest-growing economy on earth and figures to continue long-term on that path, but that bulging bubble is in for one nasty, nasty crash in the near-term from the extreme overheating in their current spending. And that crash may well coincide with prep for the 2022 Games.
China's public sector debt as a percentage of GDP is low; U. S. public debt as a percentage of GDP is about 4x higher. Total Chinese debt as a percentage of GDP is much higher, but still less than the United States percentage.

China has fundamental long-term financial issues and demographic woes; debt isn't at the forefront.
 
China's public sector debt as a percentage of GDP is low; U. S. public debt as a percentage of GDP is about 4x higher. Total Chinese debt as a percentage of GDP is much higher, but still less than the United States percentage.

China has fundamental long-term financial issues and demographic woes; debt isn't at the forefront.

Veering off topic, but, China's debt issues get into the transparency issues: they've got an enormous "shadow banking" system that is not well understood, and probably not fully private while perhaps not being public as we understand that term. So while not disputing your stat, I'm saying the boundaries between public and private debt are blurred even more so than here. The reported total debt of the entire system has been skyrocketing, and is clearly being driven by governmental monetary policy along with other, less transparent, policies.

I've been seeing articles about total debt in China for some years now, too many to link, but a Google search provides a rich lode. I think they have a looming debt crisis, it's just exceptionally difficult to pin how it has been driven and where the risks are held. They can maybe claim their "public" debt is low, but that might be a distinction without a difference (and might not even be a legit distinction).

I don't think anyone outside China can really grasp what the hell is going on with their debt situation (I'm not claiming to be able to do so), and I don't think the PRC government does either. It all looks seriously fragile in the short term. The government right now is flailing away trying to patch thousands of leaks in the dykes, it's getting pretty frantic looking.
 
China's public sector debt as a percentage of GDP is low; U. S. public debt as a percentage of GDP is about 4x higher. Total Chinese debt as a percentage of GDP is much higher, but still less than the United States percentage.

China has fundamental long-term financial issues and demographic woes; debt isn't at the forefront.

Public sector debt as a percentage of GDP has very little to do with whether or not a bubble is present and whether it will burst. For example, the financial crisis and Great Recession of 2007-2009 had nothing to do with US Government debt.

If you're looking for a brief but well-rounded look into what China's economy is facing, read Krugman in today's New York Times.
 
Public sector debt as a percentage of GDP has very little to do with whether or not a bubble is present and whether it will burst. For example, the financial crisis and Great Recession of 2007-2009 had nothing to do with US Government debt.

If you're looking for a brief but well-rounded look into what China's economy is facing, read Krugman in today's New York Times.

Bingo. This is where the overambitious city-building and infrastructure-building is outpacing the ability of society to keep up. That creates a looming vacuum that's going to choke the growth, and rather than managing that looming problem by doing a beneficial controlled 'cooldown' to backstop the mid- and long-term stability they're playing Stupid Banking Tricks to disguise the problem and keep the torrid pace going. Everyone's overinvested in stocks and then. . .

*pop*


The Olympics ultimately are just a footnote to this all, but the degree to which they are surely over-promising the IOC is indicative of the same pattern of behavior: must keep facade going that current rate of growth is unlimited and long-term. It's not. That house of cards is going to crash in 5 years or less. It'll be a big, big crash and not a little one. And they'll recover, but much like the Great Recession here they'll be a little be fucked up for the early-2020's until things rebound at uneven pace. And that'll make the gap between promises to the IOC and budgeting reality very very interesting. In a trainwreck sort of way.
 
The IOC has decided to do away with phase one of the bidding process, in which applicants were screened by a special committee to select who would become candidate cities. Now every applicant city enters the candidate city phase, and remains to the vote at the end. Initial submissions are still due September 15.

The IOC explained that the change supposedly came after they met with delegations from Boston, Paris, Hamburg, Rome. Question is whether this change was telegraphed to the USOC before the ultimatum to Boston.
 
According to the Globe, Walsh has appointed his B24 watchdog as the head of a two-year Boston 2030 planning effort.
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Also according to today's Globe, Los Angeles residents were polled a week ago, and are 81 percent in favor of hosting the Olympics.
 
Also according to today's Globe, Los Angeles residents were polled a week ago, and are 81 percent in favor of hosting the Olympics.

I think LA is literally the only city in this country where you would get such a result.
 
I think LA is literally the only city in this country where you would get such a result.

That's probably because they've been told that they can host for very little money and effort. That's not true, and they're going to find that out.
 
That's probably because they've been told that they can host for very little money and effort. That's not true, and they're going to find that out.
But, LA, unlike Boston, had already committed to huge investments in transit (A transit-building spree not seen since NYC in the 1920s/30s via Measure R 2009-2039, with both an extension of R and an additional R2 pending) and just this week committed to a huge shift in favor of transit, bikes, and walkability.

In other words, LA had an infrastructure-first, Olympics-second mindset, whereas a lot of the Olympics support in Boston was that it was supposed to somehow catalyze investments/re-development that never materialized/focused, despite putting Rich Davey in charge of the Os.
 
But, LA, unlike Boston, had already committed to huge investments in transit (A transit-building spree not seen since NYC in the 1920s/30s via Measure R 2009-2039, with both an extension of R and an additional R2 pending) and just this week committed to a huge shift in favor of transit, bikes, and walkability.

In other words, LA had an infrastructure-first, Olympics-second mindset, whereas a lot of the Olympics support in Boston was that it was supposed to somehow catalyze investments/re-development that never materialized/focused, despite putting Rich Davey in charge of the Os.

That's just another way of saying "LA doesn't see the Olympics as something that they need to invest in." The same argument could have been made in Boston, and it was. Boston 2024 spent six months arguing that committed projects like Red/Orange Capacity and GLX were all that was required transit-wise, and that proposed and likely projects like SSX and Beacon Yards would only make things easier. Also, Massachusetts did the road diet for ped/bike thing years ago. https://www.massdot.state.ma.us/Portals/0/docs/GreenDOT/DirectiveHealthyTransportation.pdf

In LA, you have investment (in LRT, which is second-rate rail transit for a city that big) and Olympics, and I don't believe that people connect those concepts. They just assume that LA can handle it because, well, "it's LA". I think you're right when you say that no one is calling the Olympics a catalyst. I just also think that few people truly believe that the quality of LA's infrastructure will affect a bid in either direction, USOC included.
 

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