Boston 2024

... I know of some great land in East Boston that could handle housing, track & field, and everything else!

This... is... actually brilliant. Suffolk Downs is ALOT of land. The demand for Olympics venues at this location might even be enough to price out the tank farms to somewhere else (immediately across the Chelsea Creek?). This would drive home the Red-Blue connector, BLX to Lynn, and perhaps commuter rail to Portsmouth. Silver Line Gateway could be jumped off of into a full blown Sullivan Sq to Airport segment of Urban Ring.

Okay, sorry, getting way ahead of myself.
 
This... is... actually brilliant. Suffolk Downs is ALOT of land. The demand for Olympics venues at this location might even be enough to price out the tank farms to somewhere else (immediately across the Chelsea Creek?). This would drive home the Red-Blue connector, BLX to Lynn, and perhaps commuter rail to Portsmouth. Silver Line Gateway could be jumped off of into a full blown Sullivan Sq to Airport segment of Urban Ring.

Okay, sorry, getting way ahead of myself.

I'm really not a fan of Suffolk Downs as the central site. I realize its a bunch of open land, which is a valuable commodity, but it's really not central to anything. It sits on 2 runway centerlines 1/2-mile from an airport. It's surrounded by swamp and tank farm (and those tank farms are somewhat out-of-the-way right now, do you really want to price them into somewhere else?)

On top of that, access is a problem. 1A goes right to the site, but since it pretty much dead ends into Revere Beach everyone would have to use the harbor tunnels to get over there, and the IOC would probably comandeer either the S/C or TWT and close them to the public for the duration of the games.

I'm not confident Blue-Lynn happens just because you're building on the Blue Line. Who says Olympic people need to get to Lynn? Blue/Charles MGH? Certainly. You might even get Blue/Salem with Lynn on the way if you can sell Salem as a tourist destination and hospitality center for tourists, but I don't think Lynn would be a priority.

Suffolk Downs just smacks to much of the dangerous "use the Olympics to fix neighborhood X" style of thinking that failed in London and would have failed in Chicago. It's not just about using our existing venues and facilities to avoid excessive costs, it's also about using our existing CITY. Make the stadium and "Olympic Village" central, so the entire urban fabric can support it.

Suffolk Downs will be a part of a bid, no question, unless there's a casino there. It's just not a good focal point.
 
Please forgive my ignorance when it comes to the Olympics and a potential bid by Boston, but what are other potential olympic village/ central headquarters locations?
 
I believe that the Alston yards, the seaport, and the Innerbelt have also been bandied about.
 
I believe that the Alston yards, the seaport, and the Innerbelt have also been bandied about.

Yeah. I believe that in addition to Beacon Park, Seaport Square and Innerbelt, someone also wanted to look at South Bay. It's a veritable North, South, East and West.

I realize that Fish didn't want to jumpstart any neighborhood opposition by tossing possible sites for a Stadium and Village around, but the industrialists definitely have all of those and more on their minds. Bob Kraft is really important here - he's been trying to build a stadium in Boston and its immediate surroundings basically continuously for the last 20 years. If a site can host large venue, I'd bet he knows all about it already, including the nitty gritty about acquisition, construction, all that stuff.

The only one he might not have expected is Beacon Park, but that's definitely on their radar after Deval cleared it for them 2 weeks ago (look at THAT coinkidink) and the 1994 study identified Harvard's athletic fields as their preferred site.
 
beacon park and harvard's allston is a pretty obvious choice for the main stadium - nearby existing facilities, easy access to transit, the pike... nearby student housing that would likely be vacant over the summer...


I just want to add that Franklin park and surrounding area needs help and investment - it could be another "main" venue for something - it's just off the orange line...

I'd also like to see an orange line stop in roslindale as part of this... just because.
 
I just want to add that Franklin park and surrounding area needs help and investment - it could be another "main" venue for something - it's just off the

I never realized there is a stadium in Franklin Park! That can surely be used for something? Also I assume archery and such could happen there.

A recent Globe article on work to renovate it. Seats 10,000 apparently.
 
I never realized there is a stadium in Franklin Park! That can surely be used for something? Also I assume archery and such could happen there.

A recent Globe article on work to renovate it. Seats 10,000 apparently.

Hey, look who's leading that effort!

Didn't the state of disrepair at White Stadium lead Northeastern to kill their football program? Would they bring it back if the city fixed it?
 
I noticed that too. Unlike the people on uhub, I don't really have an issue with the guy. Sort of a modern Carnegie.

Well, except that he's advocating for millions of dollars of public money to be spent largely on construction by... *cough*...
 
Hey, look who's leading that effort!

Didn't the state of disrepair at White Stadium lead Northeastern to kill their football program? Would they bring it back if the city fixed it?

No, they didn't play there, they played over at Parson's Field, in Brookline. White Stadium would have been a huge step up, though I'm sure NU would be all that thrilled about having their students head over to that section of town.

And they killed their football program for other reasons unrelated to the stadium. In fact, they had allocated a very large sum of money from mandatory student feeds starting in '04 to build a football stadium, strictly designated to that purpose. That money has gone to... other projects.

Something of an axe to grind, I'll admit I have.
 
Is Boston the right city? We don't want to screw up and end up with abandoned venues and billions of dollars in debt like Athens did. Besides, I don't know what the right place for a new Olympic/Soccer Stadium should be. And don't get started on the infrastructure that would be needed.
 
Is Boston the right city? We don't want to screw up and end up with abandoned venues and billions of dollars in debt like Athens did. Besides, I don't know what the right place for a new Olympic/Soccer Stadium should be. And don't get started on the infrastructure that would be needed.

We won't be. I just wrote a reply to this on the secondary thread, but Boston should never host an Olympics where we build a lot of athletics facilities with public money. A Boston 2024 Olympics really needs 4 venues to be built new - an Olympic Stadium, a Tennis Center, an Aquatics Center and a Velodrome. The Aquatics Center can be built in concert with a local university, which is how Atlanta did it. The Velodrome is cheap and temporary. The Tennis Center can be converted into existence from one of the college football stadiums for the summer. That leaves the big stadium, along with residential facilities for the athletes.

The Olympic Stadium in Boston would be temporary - like Chicago's proposed one in 2016 - easy to remove and far less expensive to build. My favorite site for it is the current site of the Allston-Brighton ramps, which has enough room and could be borrowed from Harvard on the cheap (and replaced with a mixed-use neighborhood in 2025). The Athletes' Village can either be a college campus (ideally) or a long-delayed condo development like North Point or Seaport Square.

All of those things (which I'd estimate would cost about $1-3 billion) should be covered by private sponsorships. The state and city should only pay for infrastructure projects with public benefits, like removing the A-B ramps, South Station expansion, or building a transit connection from Beacon Park to Harvard Square. Again, if a large amount of public money would be spent on something which is useless in 2030 (or in 2050), this isn't worth doing. We should need to build these things either way, and the Games should be designed to plug into the existing city, not located in some godforsaken place like Suffolk Downs that we want to "save."

Because no other American city is likely to propose a more ostentatious bid than that and the IOC is motivated to have a Summer Olympics in the US, that may be enough to win the bid for Boston. Doing this right is challenging, but it is not impossible, and it is incredibly beneficial if it works - look at Atlanta.
 
We won't be. I just wrote a reply to this on the secondary thread, but Boston should never host an Olympics where we build a lot of athletics facilities with public money. A Boston 2024 Olympics really needs 4 venues to be built new - an Olympic Stadium, a Tennis Center, an Aquatics Center and a Velodrome. The Aquatics Center can be built in concert with a local university, which is how Atlanta did it. The Velodrome is cheap and temporary. The Tennis Center can be converted into existence from one of the college football stadiums for the summer. That leaves the big stadium, along with residential facilities for the athletes.

The Olympic Stadium in Boston would be temporary - like Chicago's proposed one in 2016 - easy to remove and far less expensive to build. My favorite site for it is the current site of the Allston-Brighton ramps, which has enough room and could be borrowed from Harvard on the cheap (and replaced with a mixed-use neighborhood in 2025). The Athletes' Village can either be a college campus (ideally) or a long-delayed condo development like North Point or Seaport Square.

All of those things (which I'd estimate would cost about $1-3 billion) should be covered by private sponsorships. The state and city should only pay for infrastructure projects with public benefits, like removing the A-B ramps, South Station expansion, or building a transit connection from Beacon Park to Harvard Square. Again, if a large amount of public money would be spent on something which is useless in 2030 (or in 2050), this isn't worth doing. We should need to build these things either way, and the Games should be designed to plug into the existing city, not located in some godforsaken place like Suffolk Downs that we want to "save."

Because no other American city is likely to propose a more ostentatious bid than that and the IOC is motivated to have a Summer Olympics in the US, that may be enough to win the bid for Boston. Doing this right is challenging, but it is not impossible, and it is incredibly beneficial if it works - look at Atlanta.

While I love Boston and think it can do a bid, I would have to see more details before making judgment. Perhaps the industrial site in Everett, bordered by Broadway and Revere Beach Parkway could be a good site for an Olympic Park and Village. https://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&q=Mystic+Street+and+Robin+Street,+Everett+MA&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x89e3711cfa361217:0x55bb1f04d6f8fcba,Robin+St+%26+Mystic+St,+Everett,+MA+02149&gl=us&ei=anKRUuWSJ-nMsQSp_YLYBA&ved=0CC4Q8gEwAA. I do believe the necessary transportation improvements should be made, but we shouldn't go over-budget in constructing new infrastructure or new facilities. We don't want to have Boston end up in debt like Montreal, or worse, Athens! :eek:

But, if holding the games in Boston is determined to be unfeasible, I figure that New York should be the city that would . They can modify the 2012 Plan in some areas. The stadium could go in Queens, which was where it would've gone after West Side Stadium was cancelled, except it would be built west of Citi Field. After the games, the new stadium could (And should) be converted into a 25,000-30,000 seat soccer stadium with the track and field remaining, which was the original legacy plan for the Olympic Stadium in London.

The current Madison Square Garden should be replaced with a new arena constructed on an expanded Pier 76, which is near the Ferry Terminal, Hudson Yards, and the new 7 Extension. This arena would host all gymnastics events, while Barclays Center in Brooklyn would host Basketball. A reversal of roles from the 2012 plan. Plus, if Madison Square Garden is relocated, Penn Station could be reconstructed and improved, creating a brand new and inviting gateway to New York just in time for the games.

If New York's 2012 Olympic Bid provided the impetus for the completion of several stalled projects (New stadiums for the Yankees and the Mets, Barclays Center, waterfront parks, and rezoning in Brooklyn, Queens, and the West Side), then a 2024 bid could provide the impetus for the construction for a new convention center to replace the Javits Center. It will be located near the Aqueduct Racetrack. While this plan has stalled last year, I'm confident that the a 2024 bid would provide the impetus to get the gears moving and construct a new facility to replace the Javits Center. The events that would've been hosted at the Javits Center in the 2012 Bid will be hosted here.

Handball could be situated at the new Kingsbridge National Ice Center, which has a 5,000 seat arena that could be modified to host the events. Volleyball could either be hosted at the Prudential Center in Newark, or at a new temporary arena constructed, like the Basketball Arena in London.

Lastly, the new Olympic Village could be constructed in Willets Point, adjacent to the stadium, and could be developed into a new mixed-use neighborhood after the games are done.

Other than that, all other venues are just the same as the 2012 Plan (Save for Giants Stadium and Yankee Stadium, which have been replaced). While a New Soccer/Track and Field Stadium, New MSG and the New Convention Center could be built constructed independently, the only permanent facilities that would need to be constructed for the bid are a new Velodrome for Track Cycling and Badminton, a new Aquatic Center, a new marina in Gateway Park (Or a different location), a new white-water course and rowing facility in Flushing Meadows-Corona Olympic Park, and a new equestrian center and cycling center for BMX and Mountain Biking in Staten Island. 10 new facilities (Or 7 if you follow my line about independent construction). And after the Olympics are done, they wouldn't go to waste, unlike venues in Athens (And Beijing to a lesser extent). ;)

My models for a New York 2024 Bid are Los Angeles in 1984, Sydney in 2000, and London in 2012.

P.S. If Boston bids and wins the 2024 Olympics Bid, the Velodrome should be permanent. We currently have only one 250m Indoor Velodrome in the United States, the ADT Event Center in Carson, CA.
 
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While I love Boston and think it can do a bid, I would have to see more details before making judgment. Perhaps the industrial site in Everett, bordered by Broadway and Revere Beach Parkway could be a good site for an Olympic Park and Village. https://maps.google.com/maps?client=safari&q=Mystic+Street+and+Robin+Street,+Everett+MA&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=0x89e3711cfa361217:0x55bb1f04d6f8fcba,Robin+St+%26+Mystic+St,+Everett,+MA+02149&gl=us&ei=anKRUuWSJ-nMsQSp_YLYBA&ved=0CC4Q8gEwAA.

That area is a key part of the Boston economy; it might not look pretty, but its pretty damn important. You can't just decide to turn it into a sports park.
 
That area is a key part of the Boston economy; it might not look pretty, but its pretty damn important. You can't just decide to turn it into a sports park.

Well, it's not important enough that some of it can't become a casino... but I agree generally with your point. That's the LNG port. It's going nowhere anytime soon.
 
I really felt the need to add some balance to the overwhelming pro-Olympic talk on this thread.

Let me try and keep it simple. Bringing the Olympics to Boston is a terrible idea because:

1. Boston is too small a city to motivate all of the sporting and travel infrastructure required.
2. The economics of an Olympics are terrible for the host government - they never have a positive impact for the city or the region.
3. Where will the money come from? (hint disproportionately the state)
4. Virtually no benefits accrue to the local populace.
5. The Olympics are an exorbitant cost for a 2 to 5 week program.
6. The Olympics is a massive distraction from vital public policy issues.
7. The only positive impact is a mild boost to the local morale.

Bottom line - the Olympics in Boston is a dreadful idea if you think the city / state should add $3b to $6b (or more) in debt in order to boost morale for the region's citizens.

The only consolation is that the sentiment expressed on this thread is most likely out of sync with that of Boston / Mass / Fed Gov't. I think it is highly unlikely this will happen.

It seems that many here want the Olympics because the fairy god-Gov't will come along and finance all the transportation and other infrastructure wish lists they support. I would also love to see some of this list enacted. But hoping that the Olympics will magically finance these projects is worse than deluded. We should be arguing for these projects on their own merits.
 
1. The Boston Metro is very large, with plenty of open space when you get outside of Back Bay and the Financial District.
2. False. 1984, 1988 (both of them), 1992, 1996, 2002, 2008 all made profits. 1998, 2010, 2012 all broke even.
3. That certainly depends on each Olympics.
4. Infrastructure projects tend to get a boost, is that nothing?
5. By what metric?
6. Such as?
 
Before I try to address your points, a few comments.

In a discussion on this topic the evidence on the most of the points are effectively subjective and therefore impossible to definitively prove. The circumstances surrounding historical precedents vary widely and therefore must be used carefully. This said, I will at least try to expand on my previous post with some further detail.

I will base much of my evidence on London 2012 because (1) I lived there for 8 years preceding the games and I have a decent understanding of much of the dynamics (2) there is decent research on many relevant issues as the UK government is very transparent and responsive (3) it was a relatively inexpensive games and might show the way in which it could be done in Boston.

1. Size relative to the infrastructure required. Boston does not need a giant aquatics center, velodrome, stadium etc. Nor the ability to deal with the extra staff and competitors specifically in the locations required.

2. What do you mean by profits and broke even? Are you saying the accounting for the sponsoring entities which paid only for the operating costs of the events? If so, then this is both irrelevant and misleading.

From an economic view, there are dozens of academic studies that say there are virtually no net economic impacts for games during the last 30 years. And even this tentative conclusion requires many highly uncertain assumptions.

To start us off:
Here's a decent primer on the economics of the Olympics: http://www.pages.drexel.edu/~rosenl/sports Folder/Economic Impact of Olympics PWC.pdf

And here's a decent example of an economic case study of Sydney:
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/13683500208667904#.Uplhwxa-7_c

3. Not sure what you mean. But the most important point is that unlike London where the entire budget and concept of the Olympics was led by the national government, here it is clear that the majority of non-security spending will be born by the city and largely the state. And whatever economic benefits will accrue serious and longterm incremental debt at the state level.

4. I agree and am very supportive of public investment in infrastructure and transportation. However, infrastructure needs to be focused and well suited to the specific needs of the area. This is precisely why the Olympics yield such a poor return on investment. Olympics infrastructure is designed around the 5 weeks of events and not the real needs of the community. If we need infrastructure, like an extended Blue line, then we should identify the need, design a suitable solution to that need, and finance it with public support. We will achieve much higher returns for this infrastructure spending in this way.

5. Take London as a template, say $18b to $25b expenditure for 5 weeks. How is it possible for this not to be considered exorbitant?

6. During the run up to the Olympics (again see London), there is constant attention devoted to the Olympics budget, venue siting, construction, legacy, equity, cost overruns, problems, role of sponsorship, environmental impact etc. etc. Very little of this debate is relevant for the city / region beyond the olympics.

Such as? Public infrastructure investment, crime, development, promoting economic growth, education, healthcare (for example: Blue line extension, urban ring, financing public transport, rising sea levels, promoting economic growth).

I'm really not sure what you mean. Are you saying there is no need for public policy discussion in the state of Mass? We don't currently have anything to discuss?


The bottom line is that the Olympics is an expensive and unnecessary party for the local host and that its legacy is hardly sufficient reward for the very real expense incurred. In addition to these general points, the specifics in the US and for Mass make even less sense because of the financing structure and other points outlined above. I am not predicting doom and gloom if we hosted but simply that it is an unnecessary expense and distraction and the false hope of the posters in this thread that it will magically finance all of their pet infrastructure projects is a dangerous delusion.
 

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