Boston College Master Plan

[Equilibria]

Re: Boston College Master Plan debut

It continues to amaze me how bull-headed these neighbors are in insisting that every single one of their needs be met (referring to the most recent letter). Every time BC proposes an alternative or compromise, it's simple a tactic to "pit neighbor against neighbor and get everything they want." No, it isn't. Were it a tactic to get everything they want, they wouldn't be offering to compromise with you.

What BC wants, like any organization attempting to reach out to community organizations, is feedback on their current plans which can help inform their future decisions to help, rather than hurt the surrounding communities. In addition, they are attempting to maintain the same quality of life (and this includes the density of the campus) that other schools maintain.

My own alma-mater (not in Boston) currently has no ability to house 100% of students on campus. Most schools in urban areas don't. To my knowledge (please correct me if I'm mistaken), few schools in Boston do. BC is not in all that different a situation than BU, Tufts, Northeastern, etc. when it comes to surroundings, and the standard for urban schools in America is that a number of students live in apartments. In Europe, my understanding is that almost no one lives in dorms at all.

BC has taken quite a generous step in declaring its intention to meet a standard few others have to meet, and the response seems to be "let's see how much else we can get." Not only can students not live among us, but they can't live near us, down the street, or around the corner. This school is not new, these people knew it was here when they moved in. If they can't stand living around people who keep different hours than they do, then they live in the wrong place.

 

[stellarfun]

Re: Boston College Master Plan debut

I'm surprised and somewhat pleased that the neighborhood association at least offered a compromise. Let the college buy the apartment building (which should be its right, after all) but persuade them to not build the new dorm in Allston-Brighton.

I know nothing of the campus, but if BC doesn't care either way, let Newton take the new dorm, and everyone goes away happy.

Consolidating comments on several posts here.

The letter writer, Alex Selvig was a candidate for City Council, and lives on Lake Street, though he did not admit such in his letter. (Lake St. fronts the western boundary of the Brighton campus.) IMO, Lake St. homeowners would be unhappy with BC doing anything on the Brighton campus, other than building a cloistered convent or monastery. They are opposed to dormitories (rowdy, raucous students), athletic fields and facilities (draws too many students, thus too much noise; too many lights; not environmentally sound), parking garages (too much added traffic).

BC's Chestnut Hill campus (the main campus) is cramped. Basically, to construct a new buiulding, an existing one must be demolished. To put additional student beds on the main campus (beyond what was proposed in the draft IMP) would mean using one or more athletic fields, or building tall. I can understand that BC wants to avoid going tall, because that would change the character of the campus. And Lake St. doesn't want athletic fields moved to the Brighton campus.
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There are colleges and universities that do manage to house all their undergrads, or nearly all, on campus. Harvard does, Brown and Yale do as well. Most universities do a poorer job of housing their graduate students however; Harvard's goal is to house at least 50 percent of its graduate students in university housing, which would be pretty remarkable. MIT has built several grad student residence halls in recent years.

In the draft IMP, BC proposed building dorms for 300 students in the interior of the Brighton campus, and dorms for 200 students on south side of Comm Ave (site of the old law school) On the main campus, BC proposed demolishing dorms housing nearly a thousand students, and replacing them with dorms with 1,100 students. All told, without the Comm Ave apartment building, BC proposed to house about 8,000 of its 9,000 undergraduates on campus (up from 7,330). Even with the Coom Ave apartments, BC would be 400 beds short of a 100 percent goal, and about 700 beds short if no new dorms are built on the Brighton campus.

IMO, BC could move the interior Brighton campus dorms out to Comm Ave, north side but facing the cemetery, and that ought to squelch much of the Lake St. neighborhood boitching.

The Newton campus currently has nearly 900 beds. Aside from being some distance from the main campus, I'm not sure there is much space there for additional dorms.

 

[Tim Jackson]

Re: Boston College Master Plan debut

BC calls for a ?phased? approach to Master Plan

Scott Wachtler 11.SEP.08

Kairos Shen, Boston?s Chief City Planner and the Director of Planning at the BRA, met with the BC Task Force, Brighton residents and representatives of Boston College on Tuesday to discuss the idea of adopting a "Phased approval" to BC?s 10-year Master Plan.

The meeting comes only two days after the end of the public comment period on BC?s Revised Institutional Master Plan.

Shen said he was asked by Mayor Thomas Menino to see if there were elements of the plan that could be advanced, and if there was a way the community and BC could work towards moving forward on parts of the plan that are considered less controversial.

"What I want to do tonight is to talk about what this phased approach might be like and talk about the projects that might be part of the first phase," Shen said.

Shen said that after examining the proposal he believes the problems are solvable. He agreed with Menino that the best way might not be to approve all the projects at once, but to let the less controversial projects proceed with the community providing input along the way.

"We do want to get feedback with the goal of not asking you to eat the whole enchilada," Shen said.

Even before Shen discussed which portions of the plan might possibly be included in the first phase, there were stirrings of objections from those in attendance.

"This seems to be asking a lot of the community," one resident said. "With this idea, the community would have to commit themselves to going through this process year after year - after each and every phase. We?d have to mobilize all over again."

The idea of the community having to be involved for the length of the Master Plan was brought up again, latter in the meeting, by local blogger, Michael Pahre.

"By taking this piecemeal approach to something that is fundamentally a Master Plan process that can last for 10 years. It?s going to make everyone come back a year from now, three years from now, five years, eight year from now and fight this problem all over again. I think you should solve the housing problem and solve it now."

Shen agreed it was a point well taken, but was matter of fact in his response.

"The idea that [the community] can meet once and go away for 10 years is a false assumption," he said. "If we get to an agreement this is not the end of these meetings because you have to participate in the formation of these projects because without your input these will not be good projects. I would suggest that you all be prepared to get to know me because we?re going to get to know each other well over the years."

The parts of the plan that Shen felt could be part of a first phase of development included adding 150 beds across from More Hall, but he said he was not comfortable with the additional 350 beds that were requested.

Shen suggested that the placement of the 350 beds would have to be determined within the 10 year plan in order to accomplish the goal of BC housing 100 percent of their students on BC controlled property.

He also commented on BC?s acquisition of 2000 Commonwealth Avenue as a way to house upper classmen in BC controlled housing.

"We wish that 500 of those beds were not in 2000 Commonwealth Ave., but at this point what we would like to suggest is to focus on the elements that might make this a viable solution," he said.

Shen also proposed the parking next to Shea Field be approved and that more studies be done to determine if St. Thomas Moore Road could be made easier to navigate.

Brighton resident Sandy Furman said he would have liked to have seen Shen attend the meetings sooner.

"This has been a long grueling process," Furman said. "The comment period just ended. The Task Force just wrote its letter. Many of us just submitted our letters. What I?m hearing from the Mayor?s office is that, except for the 350 beds that we?re going to set aside and just see how things go, we?re going to approve the Master Plan... in broad strokes. That seems to be what the message is and that?s troubling to me. It seems that there hasn?t been sufficient consideration for all of the sentiments expressed by the task force and the community."

Pahre also felt the timing of Shen?s proposal was "disturbing." He also took issue with the phased approach.

"The proposal you put forward has problems," he said. "BC?s master plan inherently has a domino effect between its athletic facilities, its recreational facilities and its housing... all of these projects are relatively inseparable and I don?t see how you can separate them now and figure it out later."

The task force will meet again on Sept. 16, 6:30 p.m., at the Brighton Marine Center.

- The Bulletin Newspapers

LINK

 

[stellarfun]

Re: Boston College Master Plan debut

Eva Webster has posted a very long missive to the head of the BRA re: a community meeting held yesterday on the BC IMP. Sounds as if it was a fractious meeting. She said she wrote the missive, in part, as reaction to Alex Selvig's wife's "bitter" comments to the BRA.

http://groups.google.com/group/Alls.../f5028f51f45a79fa?show_docid=f5028f51f45a79fa

 

[AdamBC]

Re: Boston College Master Plan debut

IMO, BC could move the interior Brighton campus dorms out to Comm Ave, north side but facing the cemetery, and that ought to squelch much of the Lake St. neighborhood boitching.

The Newton campus currently has nearly 900 beds. Aside from being some distance from the main campus, I'm not sure there is much space there for additional dorms.

Not so much on the first paragraph. Since Comm Ave is a 'protected District' - nothing can be built within so many hundred feet without the neighbors complaining about setbacks... plus with the Cardinal's house and the 'historic' rock wall (and granite outcroppings), there's no way BC could build anywhere on the new property without someone being ticked about some Article 4923 consideration or whatever.

Regarding the second part - eventually they want to bring all the freshmen who currently live over yonder to the Upper Campus. This means everyone is on the same (nearly) continuous campus (minus grad students - who will get the Newton outpost to themselves).

 

[stellarfun]

Re: Boston College Master Plan debut

Not so much on the first paragraph. Since Comm Ave is a 'protected District' - nothing can be built within so many hundred feet without the neighbors complaining about setbacks... plus with the Cardinal's house and the 'historic' rock wall (and granite outcroppings), there's no way BC could build anywhere on the new property without someone being ticked about some Article 4923 consideration or whatever.

Regarding the second part - eventually they want to bring all the freshmen who currently live over yonder to the Upper Campus. This means everyone is on the same (nearly) continuous campus (minus grad students - who will get the Newton outpost to themselves).

This is a section of BC's 2007 map of its proposed expansion. Buildings marked 29 and 31 are future academic buildings; parking garage under. 31 is a future inn and conference center. 34u and 34g are student housing; u = undergraduate, g = graduate. My question / observation is, based on the map, why couldn't / shouldn't BC switch 34u and 29?

In any event, if Harvard about 35 times richer than BC is going to take 20 years to build out some of its Allston property, where is BC going to get the money to build out all its proposing in ten years? The draft IMP listed 17 separate projects over a 10 year period.

(Selvig lives approximately opposite Building 37.)

 

[cden4]

Re: Boston College Master Plan debut

From the diagram, building 27 is really the only one directly opposite houses. The rest have a pretty good sized buffer of trees separating them. I really don't see what the big issue is here.

 

[bbfen]

Re: Boston College Master Plan debut

From the diagram, building 27 is really the only one directly opposite houses. The rest have a pretty good sized buffer of trees separating them. I really don't see what the big issue is here.

They'll disturb the cemetary-people.

Not a joke, it was suggested once that allowing more and more rowdy kids would deter people from visiting their dearly departed.

 

[stellarfun]

Re: Boston College Master Plan debut

This is a section of BC's 2007 map of its proposed expansion. Buildings marked 29 and 31 are future academic buildings; parking garage under. 31 is a future inn and conference center. 34u and 34g are student housing; u = undergraduate, g = graduate. My question / observation is, based on the map, why couldn't / shouldn't BC switch 34u and 29?

In any event, if Harvard about 35 times richer than BC is going to take 20 years to build out some of its Allston property, where is BC going to get the money to build out all its proposing in ten years? The draft IMP listed 17 separate projects over a 10 year period.

(Selvig lives approximately opposite Building 37.)

An argument made is/was that rowdy students walking the central path through the middle of the Brighton campus would be noisy, and their noise would carry, especially at night.

The neighbors don't want athletic fields because spectators would cheer; they don't want lighted athletic fields because spectators would cheer at night; they don't want an indoor athletic building because that would bring too many students from the main campus onto the Brighton campus.
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I read in the Globe that Harvard's endowment only grew by 8.6 percent last year, which is an excellent rate of return IMO. It may be that BC is going to have to defer some of this ambitious expansion, given that most university endowments are likely to be strained over the next few years. That could be what the head of the BRA was hinting at. I don't think his proposal that the expansion be phased came out of the blue. I suspect his suggestion was scripted, and discussed with BC officials beforehand.

 

[palindrome]

Re: Boston College Master Plan debut

cemeteries are such a waste of space IMO.

 

[Tim Jackson]

Re: Boston College Master Plan debut

Near BC, little common ground

Piecemeal action is urged on school plan

By Andreae Downs
Globe Correspondent / September 14, 2008

If there's any area of community agreement that might allow approval of any single element of Boston College's 10-year expansion plan, it was not evident at Tuesday evening's meeting with the Boston Redevelopment Authority.

The meeting was called so that community members and BC representatives could meet with Kairos Shen, Boston's chief planner.

Shen admitted to being a "Johnny come lately" to BC's 10-year master planning process, in which residents have been active for more than a year.

But he asked the community whether any parts of the plan could be advanced so that the goal of housing all undergraduates in university housing could be achieved by 2018, something the neighborhood, the Rev. William Leahy, BC's president, and Mayor Thomas Menino all agree is paramount.

"The overarching goal is to make sure the university stays competitive and that the students are better neighbors," said Shen. "We want our universities to be successful because they're such a big part of our economy."

But he acknowledged that there was "a diversity of opinion" on almost every point of BC's proposal: from athletic fields and facilities on the newly acquired seminary land north of Commonwealth Avenue, to dorms proposed for Shea Field or almost any other location the university specified.

To start, Shen asked whether housing over 500 undergraduates at 2000 Commonwealth Ave., a high-rise that BC purchased this summer, could be advanced. Shen acknowledged the city's and neighborhoods' dismay at the university expanding outside its campus and taking residential real estate off the market. He stated that the university would have to compensate the city for lost tax revenue, and that a plan to handle student behavior in the building and around it would have to be resolved successfully before any kind of dormitory permit could be issued.

But he said that it might be possible to work out an agreement with the university that would address city and neighborhood concerns.

"This is a method to test whether students living in Commonwealth Avenue is tenable," he said. Noting the issues that neighbors have had with off-campus student behavior, he said that all of the university's proposals to deal with that would have to be implemented and tested during the 10-year building and approval process.

"If we don't approve the full plan, BC has to come back to us and fix the problems in subsequent approvals," he said. "I suspect that as the process goes on, the university will learn about itself and we will learn about them."

During the course of the evening, Shen took a similar detailed approach to many of the most controversial parts of the university's plan. He suggested that the city might allow some construction, while holding off approvals of other parts - dorm housing for 350 students on the new campus being the primary example.

Community representatives asked over and over how the approach might work. Of particular concern was the prospect of BC being allowed to construct lower-density dorms on its existing campus in Chestnut Hill, which might leave a significant number of undergraduates in Brighton, unless dorms on the new campus, on former archdiocese property, were allowed, something almost all the neighbors have agreed is unacceptable.

"The proposed master plan has a domino effect," said Mike Pahre of Foster Street.

"To house 500 more students, you need more stories" in the Chestnut Hill campus dorms.

Others were concerned that Shen's suggestion derailed a long and complex process that had already eaten up a considerable amount of their volunteer time.

"This has been a long, grueling, exhausting process," said Sandy Furman of Lane Park. "We just submitted our letters" commenting on BC's master plan. "Now I'm hearing that you're going to approve most of the broad strokes [of BC's master plan proposal] and work with us on the details."

Shen clarified: "Don't walk out saying 'They will approve everything but the 350" dorm beds on the new campus. "If you think something doesn't have legs, I'd like to hear that."

BC representatives were delighted at Shen's approach.

"This was a good meeting," said Tom Keady, BC's vice president for community affairs. "How many meetings can you have where it's just 'No, no, no'?"

Neighbors, however, expressed dismay.

"This looks like a workaround of the city's own process," said Alex Selvig, whose Lake Street home abuts the newly acquired former seminary land.

Shen said in a later interview that the city's regulatory process would still apply. He said his expectation was that neighbors would let the city know which BC-proposed projects are unacceptable and that they would continue from there.

A meeting of the BC Task Force to further discuss the issue is scheduled for Tuesday at 6:30 p.m. at 77 Warren St.

? Copyright 2008 Globe Newspaper Company.

LINK

 

[palindrome]

Re: Boston College Master Plan debut

Way to much power....

 

[Tim Jackson]

Re: Boston College Master Plan debut

Neighbors to BC: We?re in charge

By Boston Herald Editorial Staff
Monday, September 15, 2008 - Added 8h ago

The Allston-Brighton Task Force charged with reviewing an expansion plan for Boston College has given new meaning to the term ?micromanagement.?

Yes, neighborhood groups always want a measure of control over a school?s building plans. (The next university expansion plan we hear of that doesn?t generate indignation among neighbors will be the first.)

And those residents especially near the former property of the Archdiocese of Boston on Lake Street in Brighton, now owned by BC and a major part of the university?s expansion plans, surely deserve a voice in the process. The transformation of the church grounds to an academic and recreational use will to some extent change the character of that sliver of the neighborhood.

But the 17-page demand letter submitted by the task force to the Boston Redevelopment Authority, which is currently weighing BC?s expansion plan, is breathtaking in scope.

No dorm is acceptable on the former archdiocese property (now the ?Brighton campus?) the task force says. Instead BC should find a way to shoehorn 500 more students onto the main campus.

In exchange for putting up with new athletic fields on Lake Street the task force demands a say in which teams use the fields and at what hour. (And BC shouldn?t get any ideas about artificial turf - the task force says it?s unacceptable.) Paying for central air-conditioning for some neighbors could also help block the noise, thank you very much. And the list goes on and on.

The task force does come out in support of BC?s plan to convert 2000 Commonwealth Avenue, now a private apartment house, into a dorm, which is key to BC?s landmark proposal to house all of its undergraduate students on campus by 2018. That is encouraging.

But in exchange the task force insists the nonprofit university be required to pay property taxes on the building for the next decade - and leave the building empty whenever school is not in session.

Of course it is in BC?s best interest to keep its neighbors happy which is why we imagine the school will agree to negotiate a compromise. And the task force does make helpful suggestions about monitoring the expansion and keeping the lines of communication open between the university and the neighbors.

But in the end the city should not allow NIMBYism to prevent Boston College from going where no university in this city has gone before.

LINK

The demands being made by this task force are ridiculous. No artificial turf? No new student housing on the property? The task force dictates what sports teams can use (not to mention when they can) new athletic facilities?

Why don't these NIMBYs simply ask BC to simply stop growing, begin to lose its student body, and then start to decay? That would be a much more direct way of stating what they apparently want...

 

[stellarfun]

Re: Boston College Master Plan debut

Michael Pahre writes a Brighton oriented blog, and his lengthy lash-out at the BRA for wanting to give BC pretty much everything it wants can be read here.

http://brighton-community.blogspot.com/2008/09/city-planner-floats-trial-balloon-on-bc.html

I'd guess Pahre was front and center in compiling the 17 page inventory of demands that made up the neighborhood want-list.

IMO, the BRA is going to give BC pretty much what it wants in Brighton, and Harvard pretty much what it wants in Allston, because the BRA, and probable even the Mayor at this point, realize the credit crunch in the capital markets is going to slow or stop a lot of development, and BC and Harvard offer big employment opportunities to the trade and craft unions for a decade and more.
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As an aside, Harvard is actually decapitalizing its endowment to help pay for Allston. Looks like they could spend at least $400-$500 million a year for the next decade.

 

[bbfen]

Re: Boston College Master Plan debut

Michael Pahre writes a Brighton oriented blog, and his lengthy lash-out at the BRA for wanting to give BC pretty much everything it wants can be read here.

http://brighton-community.blogspot.com/2008/09/city-planner-floats-trial-balloon-on-bc.html

I'd guess Pahre was front and center in compiling the 17 page inventory of demands that made up the neighborhood want-list.

IMO, the BRA is going to give BC pretty much what it wants in Brighton, and Harvard pretty much what it wants in Allston, because the BRA, and probable even the Mayor at this point, realize the credit crunch in the capital markets is going to slow or stop a lot of development, and BC and Harvard offer big employment opportunities to the trade and craft unions for a decade and more.
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As an aside, Harvard is actually decapitalizing its endowment to help pay for Allston. Looks like they could spend at least $400-$500 million a year for the next decade.

You bring up an interesting point. I'd actually extend the acquiescence of both the BRA and the Mayor to any institution willing to invest capital into physical property. Oh, they'll talk and have a lot of meetings (and overdesign in order to appear to cede points to the NIMBY's and looneys, but it's window-dressing).

These sorts of projects will go a long way to helping Boston ride the economic recovery of the next 5?10 years, and help keep it a viable, influential city. It may be at cost to views, sunlight, a 200 year-old pile of dog poop from the dog of Paul Revere's cousin's sister-in-law's neighbor, but that's life.

 

[AdamBC]

Re: Boston College Master Plan debut

It may be at cost to views, sunlight, a 200 year-old pile of dog poop from the dog of Paul Revere's cousin's sister-in-law's neighbor, but that's life.

Why would it not surprise me if these NIMBYs referenced said pile of dog poop in their complaints... considering the breadth of issues they have with everything BC does...

I feel like BC has made certain compromises that will hurt it going forward (elimination of a track and field area to reorient the baseball field, for example, leaving BC without an olympic sports practice area) while many of the same NIMBY's refuse to give an inch (Eva Webster, recent convert, excluded). I can't imagine BC and the BRA allowing this farce to go on much longer.

At some point, wouldn't it just be faster for BC to sue the city/BRA like they did with Newton to force the issue?

 

[bbfen]

Re: Boston College Master Plan debut

At some point, wouldn't it just be faster for BC to sue the city/BRA like they did with Newton to force the issue?

I'm honestly surprised it hasn't happened already. I honestly think it's the PR mavens in the diaconal office resisting this (worse PR on top of the priest scandal, and all that). A "normal" private institution wouldn't even consider holding back on if every other circumstance was identical.

 

[underground]

Re: Boston College Master Plan debut

If someone with the money and time (like a BC or Harvard) sued the city over it's inane development rules, it might just be the best thing that ever happened to Boston.

 

[stellarfun]

Re: Boston College Master Plan debut

.....
At some point, wouldn't it just be faster for BC to sue the city/BRA like they did with Newton to force the issue?

No. the issue is not yet ripe; i.e., the city of Boston has made no decision that BC could claim abridges its 'rights', or, in BC's view, exceeds the powers and authorities of the city.

 

[Tim Jackson]

Re: Boston College Master Plan debut

BC's place in Brighton

September 19, 2008

IT'S TIME for Boston College to move ahead with sensible aspects of its 10-year campus expansion plan and set aside controversial proposals - notably the construction of student housing in the Lake Street area - that have put it on a collision course with its Brighton neighbors.

Both the college and the community share the goal of housing all of BC's 8,600 undergraduates on campus within the next decade. But that shouldn't give BC license to expand the borders of what constitutes "the campus" in all directions. Still, it is possible to proceed in selective areas that support the college's transformation into a world-class university and theological center without creating hardship for neighbors.

Neither city officials nor neighbors will abide dorms for 500 students in Brighton on land BC purchased from the Archdiocese of Boston. The unknowns are simply too great, especially the ability of the college to control the behavior of its students in a residential neighborhood. But such concerns should not interfere with BC's plan to build new dormitories on its traditional Chestnut Hill campus. That work should proceed.

The college also should be allowed to move ahead with its plan to convert a 16-story apartment house at 2000 Commonwealth Ave. into a dormitory for 560 students. Many BC students already live in the building, and dorm status would bring adult supervision. A community task force wants to limit the building's use to traditional academic semesters. But banning students and conferees during the rest of the year is bad urban policy. Empty buildings are rarely assets to the surrounding community.

BC created a sweeping plan. But city officials must ensure that it proceeds in small stages with plenty of time to correct course.

LINK