Boston Landing | New Balance Complex | Brighton

Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

I'm pretty sure some of you think most people are mentally retarded. Nobody is going to confuse Boston Landing with Back Bay or South Station.



FFS, this argument is a steaming pile of shit. Your friend would be an example of a shitty person if he didn't tell you what stop to get off because without any context of location to begin with you're screwed between South Station and Newtonville; "Back Bay" and "Yawkee" are equally poor names since they don't tell you lick about where you are unless you live in the city already or are familiar with the cities geography, history or sports... fortunately MOST people have a clue.

I feel silly asking you this, but you do realize Back Bay is the name of the neighborhood in which the Back Bay train station is located, don't you?

http://www.bostonredevelopmentauthoritynews.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Neighb_2010web.pdf
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

As William Shakespeare once wrote, "A commuter station by any other name will still smell like urine."
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

I feel silly asking you this, but you do realize Back Bay is the name of the neighborhood in which the Back Bay train station is located, don't you?

http://www.bostonredevelopmentauthor...hb_2010web.pdf

I'm aware. I think you missed the point of my post which is that "Back Bay" is no more telling about location that "Boston Landing" if you are unfamiliar with the history or geography of the city (which the reason the name is given to that neighborhood) - which is quite possible if the person is as hypothetically dumb as the person I was responding to originally made people out to be.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

I'm aware. I think you missed the point of my post which is that "Back Bay" is no more telling about location that "Boston Landing" if you are unfamiliar with the history or geography of the city (which the reason the name is given to that neighborhood) - which is quite possible if the person is as hypothetically dumb as the person I was responding to originally made people out to be.

Give it a year or two. It can be dedicated to someone. Perhaps Menino when he steps down.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

I'm aware. I think you missed the point of my post which is that "Back Bay" is no more telling about location that "Boston Landing" if you are unfamiliar with the history or geography of the city (which the reason the name is given to that neighborhood) - which is quite possible if the person is as hypothetically dumb as the person I was responding to originally made people out to be.

"Back Bay" has geographical meaning. "Boston Landing" has none. You could name the station "Cheese Whiz Station" and it would have exactly the same degree of usefulness.

I have no idea what beef you had with my comment, which I think was pretty mainstream. If you think you have "nicer" friends than I do, what if you were going to a hotel around there, caught the CR from South Station and simply forgot the name of the station but remembered the hotel was in Brighton? A restaurant? We could do this all day.

It's quite possible that in 50 years we'll all be referring to Brighton as "Boston Landing." That would be tragic, but it's possible. Of course, "Back Bay" had, as you say, historical meaning prior to any railway station being located there. So did the name of literally every other station on the Worcester Line (EDIT: Commuter Rail station - some were railway suburbs built and named by the B&A). By the way, that includes Yawkey, which is named after the street it's on and is mostly used to access a baseball stadium built by - you guessed it - the Yawkeys.

I have a serious problem with simply tossing out wayfinding because "people aren't that stupid." Maybe not, but making things easier for people is never a bad thing. If we're going by your logic, let's rename the Logan "New York International Airport" and reduce all of our Interstate numbers by 10. Hey, people aren't stupid enough to get confused! They'll look at a map!
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

Yawkey Station is not on Yawkey Way, and Tom Yawkey did not build Fenway Park.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

Yawkey Station is not on Yawkey Way, and Tom Yawkey did not build Fenway Park.

No, he did not. He did, however, undertake the massive renovation project in the 1930s which gave the ballpark staying power and it's present form. When I said the Yawkeys built the ballpark, I was being slightly abstract.

Yawkey Station is not on any street at present. It is, however, directly adjacent to Yawkey Way and will in fact front Yawkey Way when the Fenway Center project is complete and the street is extended to the station.

Neither of those facts changes the general point that the name "Yawkey" has local significance in that area. By the way, I would love the see that station renamed "Kenmore" or "Fenway" for wayfinding purposes, but whatever.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

I'm aware. I think you missed the point of my post which is that "Back Bay" is no more telling about location that "Boston Landing" if you are unfamiliar with the history or geography of the city (which the reason the name is given to that neighborhood) - which is quite possible if the person is as hypothetically dumb as the person I was responding to originally made people out to be.

Fair enough, but I think your missing Equilibria's point that to somebody who is familiar with the geography of Boston, "Back Bay" and even "Yawkey" (to a lesser degree, but still), have more meaning than "Boston Landing." They reflect a neighborhood and a street, both established geographical way finding names. Boston Landing does not.

I don't think people are going to simply get on a train and wait until the station name sounds right, but there is a lot of validity to naming a station in a way that it can be easily located by locals.

Sadly, most people in Newton have no idea where the Eliot T station is located, but everybody knows where the Newtonville Commuter Rail Station or Newton Highlands T station is, even if they don't use public transportation. Heck very few people even know how to get to Riverside or Woodland, unless it is their station of choice. That's because, in the case of Riverside, Woodland and Eliot, they do not tell the common person where the fuck they are. Newtonville, Newton Highlands, Newton Centre, etc. are geographical names used independent of the station, so everybody knows where they are and what they are called.

In conclusion, Boston Landing is a dumb name. People who live in Brighton may not even think to look at a commuter rail schedule for a more convenient trip from "Boston Landing." If it were called "Brighton," people might be much more inclined to say "Hey, there's a commuter rail station opening up in MY neighborhood! The B line and 57 bus suck, I'm gonna go check it out."

Sorry for the essay.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

Meh. Until they actually slap the signs on the platform the name can change umpteen times over. The community outreach on this has been top-notch and New Balance definitely seems to care about that, so there's ample time to make adjustments. If geographical confusion shows up tops on the list of concerns, I have little doubt they'll take the feedback to heart. Even if the ultimate name isn't somebody's top choice.


"Brighton Landing" with a New Balance logo works for me. But I can live with anything that at least pegs it loosely to the neighborhood it's in. "Boston ____" isn't nearly specific enough.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

Sadly, most people in Newton have no idea where the Eliot T station is located, but everybody knows where the Newtonville Commuter Rail Station or Newton Highlands T station is, even if they don't use public transportation. Heck very few people even know how to get to Riverside or Woodland, unless it is their station of choice. That's because, in the case of Riverside, Woodland and Eliot, they do not tell the common person where the fuck they are. Newtonville, Newton Highlands, Newton Centre, etc. are geographical names used independent of the station, so everybody knows where they are and what they are called.

You're from Newton too, so you might know this:

Each of the names you listed actually was intended to represent a geographical location which would have been easily recognizable to people at the time the line was built. Riverside is named after the then-famous Riverside Recreation Area. The station was initially located at the junction between the B&A Circuit Line and the B&A Mainline, a spot now under the Turnpike (the junction is still there and is how DMUs on the Pike would access Riverside). The station is named after a place which no longer exists (attempts to rename the station either "Lower Falls" or "Auburndale" would slight one of those, and "Lasell" would piss off everybody).

Woodland was named after the Woodland Park Hotel. It's still there as the Woodland Golf Club's clubhouse. The original station (which is now a tool shed and is clearly visible from the Washington St. overpass) was meant to basically offer private access to wealthy hotel patrons. There simply isn't enough of a neighborhood around it to be called "Woodland," so perhaps "Newton-Wellesley Hospital" would be a better name these days. The apartment complex at the station does prominently display the name, however.

Eliot is the funny one, since it actually has no meaning at all, but was supposed to. The Eliot and Waban stations were both named by the same guy (Mark Strong, who owned the "Strong Block" in Waban Center). The new circuit line cut through a whole bunch of basically empty land, and the stations at Waban and Eliot initially served absolutely nothing. Strong named them after Chief Waban and John Eliot, two of his heroes and favorite characters from local mythology. As at Woodland, no discernible neighborhood ever grew around Eliot, so unlike Waban it means nothing today and really never has. (Side note - Chief Waban never lived anywhere near the village of Waban, and had no association with the location whatsoever). "Upper Falls" might make a better station name until GL to Needham happens.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

You're from Newton too, so you might know this:

Each of the names you listed actually was intended to represent a geographical location which would have been easily recognizable to people at the time the line was built. Riverside is named after the then-famous Riverside Recreation Area. The station was initially located at the junction between the B&A Circuit Line and the B&A Mainline, a spot now under the Turnpike (the junction is still there and is how DMUs on the Pike would access Riverside). The station is named after a place which no longer exists (attempts to rename the station either "Lower Falls" or "Auburndale" would slight one of those, and "Lasell" would piss off everybody).

Woodland was named after the Woodland Park Hotel. It's still there as the Woodland Golf Club's clubhouse. The original station (which is now a tool shed and is clearly visible from the Washington St. overpass) was meant to basically offer private access to wealthy hotel patrons. There simply isn't enough of a neighborhood around it to be called "Woodland," so perhaps "Newton-Wellesley Hospital" would be a better name these days. The apartment complex at the station does prominently display the name, however.

Eliot is the funny one, since it actually has no meaning at all, but was supposed to. The Eliot and Waban stations were both named by the same guy (Mark Strong, who owned the "Strong Block" in Waban Center). The new circuit line cut through a whole bunch of basically empty land, and the stations at Waban and Eliot initially served absolutely nothing. Strong named them after Chief Waban and John Eliot, two of his heroes and favorite characters from local mythology. As at Woodland, no discernible neighborhood ever grew around Eliot, so unlike Waban it means nothing today and really never has. (Side note - Chief Waban never lived anywhere near the village of Waban, and had no association with the location whatsoever). "Upper Falls" might make a better station name until GL to Needham happens.

I'm originally from Newton Highlands, but now live in Maryland.

I always thought Eliot station was on Eliot Street - - next to the bridge over Route 9. But it looks like there is no Eliot Street there. Should be called Woodward Station.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

I always thought Eliot station was on Eliot Street - - next to the bridge over Route 9. But it looks like there is no Eliot Street there.

Confusingly, the nearby street is spelled Elliot.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

"Back Bay" has geographical meaning. "Boston Landing" has none.

Again:

This is where many (most?) people coming from the west enter the city. Is the name really so terrible?

It absolutely has geographical meaning. It is where both this line and the pike enter (or "land" in) Boston. Not sure why this is so difficult.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

So if someone asked you to guess where "Boston Landing" was and you had no prior knowledge, this area would jump to mind because the Mass Pike "lands" in Boston there? I kind of doubt it. I would guess it was somewhere on the waterfront. Allston/Brighton seems like the most obvious name to me.
 
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Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

With no other context, I would guess 'Boston Landing' to be a pier near Logan Airport.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

So if someone asked you to guess where "Boston Landing" was and you had no prior knowledge, this area would jump to mind because the Mass Pike "lands" in Boston there? I kind of doubt it. I would guess it was somewhere on the waterfront. Allston/Brighton seems like the most obvious name to me.

Of course not. I'm not saying it's a perfectly descriptive name, but some people are acting as if it's completely random and without reason. Obviously New Balance wanted the word Boston in "their" stop and found a way to do that. It is somewhat forced but it does make sense.

Mostly I just think this is a silly thing to be upset about. I probably shouldn't have responded at all. Here's hoping the this is a successful development that one day expands to cover the pike.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

Mostly I just think this is a silly thing to be upset about. I probably shouldn't have responded at all. Here's hoping the this is a successful development that one day expands to cover the pike.

People having the ability to navigate the city is not "silly." It's crucially important. It's going to become even more important as the MBTA considers selling naming rights to other stations. What if some developer rebuilds JFK/UMASS and wants to rename it "Boston Skyline" because the view of the skyline is nice from there? What if a new Westwood Station developer will pay for an Orange Line station at 128, but only if the station is renamed "Boston Metropolitan" because technically that's the first Amtrak stop in the Boston Metro?

Again, if this project was going to be known by the name "Boston Landing" this wouldn't be so bad. "National Harbor" in DC is a stupid, haughty and geographically meaningless name, but that's what everyone calls it so it has day-to-day relevance. Even "North Point" as the new name for Lechmere made some sense since at least it was to the north and most people knew what "North Point" was. This station isn't named for the development or the "new neighborhood", but for the LLC developing the site. That's like renaming Woodland "National Development" because that's who developed the parking lot.

Hopefully, this is a lot of ado about nothing and the DOT only used that name as a placeholder on their internal documents. I think the MBTA will have to approve it before it becomes official (and it might have to pass a neighborhood review like the GLX station names did).
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

Brighton
Everett Street
Guest Street
New Balance
Brighton Landing
Abattoir
Stockyard District

All historic, established names that describe the area, any combination of which would be a satisfactory name for wayfinding and allow New Balance to brand the neighborhood as their own.

This isn't like Northpoint, where the area was never anything but rail yards; or the naming of Allston (named after a painter by the B&A), which needed a name to distinguish it from the other Brighton station (note they chose a distinct name for wayfinding purposes, they could have had a Brighton Depot and a Brighton Station, but knew then that was a bad idea, unlike now apparently).

This area has an established identity, and it is disrespectful to throw all that out the window for marketing purposes. It would be like a developer coming in and building a bunch of houses on your street, and then renaming the street to its corporations namesake. It's also really absurd considering they have been pushing the Brighton Landing name so hard for so long, and have actually gotten it to stick despite the fact there is no "Landing" of any kind there. It's also disappointing, because until this point NB has seemed to be relatively friendly towards the community and also appears rather proud of being a local corporation that competes very well against its multinational rivals.

But I think what really gets at people, or at least gets at me, is that "Boston Landing" is such a shitty, lazy, sterile, corporate name. It sounds like a development in Huston, Atlanta, Charlotte, or any one of the identity-challenged cities who get bland generic. Its Mr Smith, CEO of Acme Corp.


To boot, Brighton has historically had closer connections to Cambridge than Boston. Its original name was Little Cambridge. The whole reason the B&A built the original Allston and Brighton stations were to hit the stockyards, which were created to supply the Continental Army that was staged in Cambridge. Dawes rode up from Roxbury through Brighton to Cambridge to warn of the British invasion. If anything, it should be called Cambridge Landing, because hell, at least that would have some sort of precedence, and makes just about as much sense.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

"Abbatior Landing" ... Geez.

At least it sounds sophisticated and continental.
 
Re: New Brighton Landing | New Balance Complex

- "Hey, I have a meeting at that new New Balance thing. What's the stop?"

"Boston Landing"

- "Why is it called Boston Landing"

"It's the first stop in Boston"

- "Oh"

Disaster Averted!
 

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