Boston's Waterfront

[statler]

We've discussed redeveloping/redesigning Downtown Crossing, City Hall Plaza, Boston Common and the Greenway, how about the waterfront?

With the exception of Rowes Wharf, there is not much I like about Boston's waterfront. That said, I'm not sure what I would do differently given the chance.

With all due respect to everyone's feelings toward Ms Vivian, I like the idea of an open, public waterfront. I also like leaving (albeit, completely redesigned) NEA where it is. In fact I was hoping they could find a way to stretch it back all the way into the Greenway, with lots of public displays like the sea lions.

Long Wharf is just a mess. The old brick buildings should be preserved, the rest....

ablarc made a comment a while ago that Columbus Park wasn't a particularly good spot for a park. I didn't agree with him at the time, but I'm starting see his point. Now obviously, the folks in the N.End would never allow their park to be developed, but in the fantasy world what would work better there?

I'm still not a fan of Pei's Habor Towers but I like the idea of tall buildings along the waterfront. Maybe they can be reskinned in glass? Possibly some softscapeing around the edges and a few smaller infill buildings.

Which leads us to The Harbor Garage. Put it underground (there needs to be parking along the waterfront, unfortunately) and build two or three skinny skyscrapers on the lot.

Keep the Old Northern Av Bridge, clean it up, encase it in clear glass and make it a year round marketplace.

As for S.Boston, meh. The Courthouse kinda sucks, (I like it more than most people here, but it could be better) and the ICA is a bit boring considering the location. As for the rest, it's wait and see. Hopefully we'll get more Rowes Wharf style and less Harbor Towers type stuff.

Any thoughts?

 

[Patrick]

what is the boston waterfront like, Statler? I mean Ive seen it, sure, but not really observed it. Is it a working waterfront? Is it mixed use? Is it residential? gritty? industrial? are there any parks?

 

[TheBostonian]

Patrick, you will get a good sense of it with a local.live.com search.

 

[Ron Newman]

Columbus Park is quite well-used and popular in warm weather. I don't know why you'd want to change it or build anything on it.

It's the only significant passive green park in the North End. Everything else is either brick (Paul Revere Mall) or active athletic fields.

 

[Joe_Schmoe]

I agree with you about Harbor Towers, the garage, and the aquarium, but I don't know what you have against Long Wharf. I think the Marriott is probably Boston's nicest looking hotel when you think of the dreck like the Hilton at the Prudential, the Hyatt downtown, and the terrible stuff at the South Boston Waterfront. Christopher Columbus park gets used quite heavily, I'd have rather developed the North End greenway parcels. I also love all the old granite wharehouses in the North End that project out into the harbor. All in all, I think that the waterfront is the least of our problems and one of the better areas in the city.
I had a great idea for the area: we have the Boston Tea party ship, and the USS Constitution. I think a few more historical ships should be spread out around the harbor, like a recreation of a fishing boat at Long Wharf, a clippership at Clippership Wharf...

 

[statler]

Patrick, the downtown waterfront is sectioned off in to differents areas, all connected by what is called the HarborWalk. The HaborWalk supposedly runs from Dorchester all the way thru Charlestown into E.Boston. I'm only concerned about the downtown area.
Downtown's waterfront starts more or less less at Christopher Columbus Park. It a nice park as far as parks go I guess, but it sits on very valuable land and is a bit suburban.
From there you head south on to Long Wharf, This used to be a very gritty, industrial area but was redeveloped over the past 40 or so years into a kind of empty sterile tourist area, headed off by the Marriott Long Wharf Hotel. There are few historic brick and granite buildings still remaining on the wharf but most of the wharf is an barren plaza. That can be kind of nice in the summer, but usually sits empty most of the year. There are all sorts of Harbor cruise ships the leave from the wharf and there is a seasonal outdoor bar so there is plenty of activity during the warm weather but for the most part it's just too...open and bland.
Continuing to head south , you get to the Aquarium, which you have probably been to. Too much useless open space (although they are trying to fill it in) and too much ugly brutalist architecture. For such cool place it really is uninviting. After that, there is a concrete parking garage sitting on what is possibly one of the most valuable plots of land in the city. It's nuts. At least there is some ground level retail in garage, but still...
There is an ugly, useless plaza in front of the garage as well.
Then you get to I.M.Pei's Harbor Tower's. Two tall concrete condo developments surrounded by more useless concrete plazas. Very little street presence. An area you hurry through to get to the next place.
Which is Rowes Wharf...ahh. Like a newer Beacon Hill on the water. The buildings hug the coastline leaving just enough space for pedestrians to wander along the water. It houses restaurants, a hotel and, I think, maybe condo (someone will correct me if I'm wrong). Just beautiful urban planning. High quality materials used throughout and alway well maintained. All the rich folk park their yachts out front during the summer. A real fun place to walk around.
From there you get to the Old Northern Av bridge. A rusty old industrial era relic that is the center of a debate as to whether it should be saved or removed. It is spinning bridge as opposed to a draw bridge. It's a neat structure, but it has seen better days. It needs to be completely overhauled, which is not cheap. Last I heard the Coast Guard wanted it removed because it a pain in the ass to open it, which makes it difficult to get boats in and out of Fort Point Channel. Mind you there is a newer, lower, non-opening bridge a hundred yards further down the channel so there is nowhere for boats to go anyway..
The bridge takes you over to the S. Boston waterfront or the Seaport, depending on who you are talking to. You land at the Mokely Courthouse. A building that most people on this forum despise. It is very suburban. Very little interaction with pedestrians and completely turns its back on the city, facing it's glass 'front' towards the water and it bland brick ass towards the city. Right now it is surround by parking lots but someday (maybe before I die!) it will be filled in with all sorts of urban developments! (or a mall :roll: ) After crossing an endless sea of parking lots you get to the new ICA, which is nice. Hopefully future development will mimic that.
After the ICA I get a little fuzzy. (it's out of my lunch hour walk range from my office :?) I know there is the World Trade Center, (which is really just a smaller convention center), some restaurants, I think some industrial and a cruise terminal.
Hopefully this answered your question. If not I've wasted my lunch hour for nothing. :wink: I was going to add more links but damnit , I gotta go eat..

 

[kz1000ps]

Looking at the G Earth satellite images, apparently Columbus Park was redone in 2004 (anybody know more about this?) in which case it isn't going anywhere any time soon.

I've only been there twice but both times (which were during the summer) I got the feeling that the park was a bit unecessary and underused, given all the other plazas and destinations nearby. Do many North End-ers use it? My recollection was that it was mostly tourists who would stay for maybe 10 minutes or workers eating their lunches.

 

[PerfectHandle]

Downtown's waterfront starts more or less less at Christopher Columbus Park. It a nice park as far as parks go I guess, but it sits on very valuable land and is a bit suburban.

I don't understand how it could be considered suburban other than its not having a building on it.

I've only been there twice but both times (which were during the summer) I got the feeling that the park was a bit unnecessary and underused, given all the other plazas and destinations nearby. Do many North End-ers use it? My recollection was that it was mostly tourists who would stay for maybe 10 minutes or workers eating their lunches.

I use it all the time for lunch, and tourism and being great for lunch seem like good reasons for having a park. It's filled most of the summer and I'm pretty sure it's used by many people from the North End.

 

[statler]

I don't understand how it could be considered suburban other than its not having a building on it.

A good urban park should have a sense of enclosure, like the Park at Post Office Sq, the Public Gardens and the Comm Ave Mall.
Again, I'm really not too sure what the answer is. Maybe a smaller park or some development around the edges, particularly along Atlantic Av. As it is, it feels too open and windswept.

 

[Ron Newman]

Does the Esplanade, or the Hatch Shell Oval in particular, have a 'sense of enclosure'? But I think most of us regard it as a good urban park.

Christopher Columbus Park isn't broken and doesn't need fixing. (It didn't really need the most recent renovation, for that matter.) The only improvement I'd make to it is to add more concerts and other programming.

 

[Smuttynose]

-I like Columbus park - especially since it's the one good-sized park on the waterfront downtown.
-The Harborwalk is a fantastic idea-but it still needs some, maybe lots of, work. In Charlestown it takes you to a dead end at the Navy Yard - takes a solid 15 min. to backtrack. It also ends abruptly in the Seaport area, where you have to play detective to find Castle Point.
-I'd like to see the Charlestown waterfront developed more - beautiful place, but scarily dead at night.
-The Channel area - like most of the Seaport- is maddeningly full of potential, though I do like the Intercontinental and the plans for the tower next door. The post office has to go, and the Tea thing should be better displayed. Some retail, restaurants, anything to bring people along the channel.
-Seaport... don't get me started
-The Courthouse is nice from the water/downtown, the god-ugly brick walls part -not so nice.
-The Harbor Towers need a facelift a la State Street Bank - and some relationship with the street.

Overall, I agree with Joe that the waterfront (minus the Seaport) is not bad, could just use some improving.

 

[statler]

Does the Esplanade, or the Hatch Shell Oval in particular, have a 'sense of enclosure'? But I think most of us regard it as a good urban park.

Wouldn't the Esplanade be better if Storrow Drive were submerged and the park went right up to the buildings on the other side? Obviously it can't be enclosed on the water side. but I think it should have at least a 'back edge'.
I don't hate CC Park or the waterfront, just thinking of ways they can be improved.
None of this would be on my top ten things the city needs to do NOW list, I just thought it would be a fun discussion.

 

[TC]

Christopher Columbus Park isn't broken and doesn't need fixing. (It didn't really need the most recent renovation, for that matter.) The only improvement I'd make to it is to add more concerts and other programming.

I never understood why it was a priority to spend money on Columbus Park either.

 

[statler]

I think the Marriott is probably Boston's nicest looking hotel

Really? I've always thought it looks like a cruise ship made out brick (probably intentional). And I hate the fact that the architect decided to mimic the exposed party wall look of all the other buildings along the expressway/Greenway. Wasn't the Big Dig already in planning stages when that was built?
I do like Tia's though. That's a great use of that space, the rest of the building seems unfriendly to the the street.

 

[TC]

-The Harbor Towers need a facelift a la State Street Bank - and some relationship with the street.

Unfortunately (or ironically?) Harbor Towers did have a face lift about 6-8 years ago. I think they replaced all of the glass and re-caulked the building panels.

What facelift at State Street? Is something being done with the old tower?

 

[statler]

Christopher Columbus Park isn't broken and doesn't need fixing. (It didn't really need the most recent renovation, for that matter.) The only improvement I'd make to it is to add more concerts and other programming.

I never understood why it was a priority to spend money on Columbus Park either.

They didn't even do too much, mostly added some kid-friendly water fountains, a new playground, a couple of flowerbeds and threw down some god-awful stamped asphalt. I can't believe it was done by the same firm that did the Park at Post Office Sq .

 

[Roxxma]

They also reoriented the arbor towards the greenway. It used to turn halfway through, before the expressway was removed. They also removed one 70s style fountain and resurfaced the walkways. I think the new design is a bit of an improvement and makes the park more a part of the Greenway.

 

[Waldorf]

Columbus Park is great. They have a ton of events there and a lot of people use during the warmer months. The Greenway Conservancy is working with the city to tie in events and such with the Columbus park.

 

[Scott]

I noticed that someone registered FHMH as a new user which sounds alot like HMFH Architects, Inc. who looked at the viability of building a restaurant at the end of Long Wharf.

From the BRA website:
"The BRA has retained the services of HMFH Architects, Inc. to review the building for the reuse by a food service operation. The firm has designed the preliminary build out plans for enclosing the structure ? a construction process that is needed in order to maintain the building?s MBTA use as well as a new restaurant feature. Early design plans include a kitchen, bar and waiting area, and a dining area. HMFH envisions aluminum curtainwalls with tinted and opaque glazing to maximize the waterfront?s scenic views while allowing natural light into the building. Also planned is the installation of panelized glass windows, allowing for seasonal operability, as well as brand new entrances and doors. Repairs to the structure?s slate roof will be made and updates to the building?s utilities will be undertaken for the project. The consultant has indicated that allowable occupancy of the project is approximately 86 persons in the dining area, 15 at the bar and waiting area."

http://www.cityofboston.gov/bra/press/PressDisplay.asp?pressID=333

 

[Padre Mike]

I know some have objected to the stamped asphalt walkway in Columbus Park, but my ankles are eternally grateful! The cobble stones that were there were never an appropriate surface for walking or for baby carriages. I suppose they could have laid down smooth granite blocks, but then...costs rise. I generally like the redo of the park and only hope it will be maintained.