Bowker Overpass replacement?

[Ron Newman]

While the Red Line would still be worthwhile, commuter rail would not. The Minuteman Bikeway carries far more traffic than the commuter rail did in the 1960s and 70s, and probably for decades before that.

 

[Kahta]

But yet, you still don't get it...

We all pay for highways, we all pay for transit...

But the residents of Boston are also paying extra for the highways, they have to deal with living underneath them. They have to deal with their neighborhoods being cut in half by highways, and cars coming in from the suburbs blocking up the streets and putting people in danger.

The money isn't the big deal. It's the intrusion of big ramps and overpasses, and the deaths caused by impatient drivers, that's what bothers us most in the city.

Without highways, Boston would have declined even more on the national scene than it has as trucking became increasingly dominant with the wave of containerization in the 1970s. As it is, Boston lost out on a chance to become a major shipping center by lacking easy highway access to the port until ten years ago. Highways aren't just used to move people and today about 90% of freight in MA is moved by highway.

Railroads are incredibly inefficient for transporting finished goods-- trucks do it much faster and much cheaper than any train. Even with Diesel prices where they are right now.

 

[Lurker]

The port of Boston now sees the same tonnage pass through each year as it did in the 1920s. The expansion of the modular cargo container yard at Castle Island has done a lot to expand port traffic back to levels not seen since the begone heydays. A big problem right now though is a lack of decent rail access to that facility. The limited amount of truck traffic that can pass through there in a day is going to be a significant bottleneck in a few years.

 

[Matthew]

Without highways, Boston would have declined even more on the national scene than it has as trucking became increasingly dominant with the wave of containerization in the 1970s. As it is, Boston lost out on a chance to become a major shipping center by lacking easy highway access to the port until ten years ago. Highways aren't just used to move people and today about 90% of freight in MA is moved by highway.

This argument is internally inconsistent though. This is what I understood from your statement: We have highways and 90% of freight is transported by highways and Boston is doing well, but yet, we don't have enough highways and Boston isn't getting enough shipping, and we're not doing well? Huh?

Railroads are incredibly inefficient for transporting finished goods-- trucks do it much faster and much cheaper than any train. Even with Diesel prices where they are right now.

Railroads are just as capable of shipping finished goods as anything else. Remember, these days, the containers are the same; it's all inter-modal. I think you meant to say that railroads have difficulty reaching to all the distribution endpoints. That will likely remain true unless street running freight makes a comeback.

What's made truck shipping so cheap is the incredible amount of subsidy it receives from the taxpayer. Ton for ton, 5 axle trucks are doing the most damage to roads and bridges. Trucking companies aren't responsible for fixing the roads, and even the tolls and various fees they pay hardly make up for the difference. Railroad companies have to fix their own tracks. Despite this disadvantage, more and more long distance shipping is shifting back to railroads because of their inherent efficiencies. They're making a tidy profit in the process, as well.

That kind of commercial traffic is important to our economy, and trucks currently bear a lot of it. And there will probably always be some kind of trucking even if the subsidies go away. But I think it's kind of ridiculous to make a case that truck traffic alone justifies bulldozing neighborhoods and subjecting city residents to high speed automotive traffic. Trucks don't need urban freeways; the primary beneficiary of those is passenger vehicles. Freight can wait: predictability and reliability is more important than top speed.

 

[whighlander]

Yeah, I know all about the aborted Red Line extension and the discontinued commuter rail.

The commuter rail that lapsed in 1977 should have been kept in operation. Route 2 does not provide access beyond Alewife, where its 8 lanes terminates abruptly into a sub-functional 1920's era parkway. Commuter rail or the Red Line extension should be revived today. Except, of course, Arlington and Lexington NIMBY's would stop any conversion of the Minuteman Bikeway to any type of rail; Red Line extension, light rail or commuter rail. They would use the 4F argument, that the corridor is now "park land", which they would undoubtedly win with lawsuits.

No, Lexington is content to remain in it's insulated, auto-centric Ozzie and Harriet vision of white flight suburbia. Just don't expect more highways to be built in Cambridge and Boston to feed that auto-centric model.

Charlie -- since someone finally freed you from "riding round neath the streets of Boston..." -- have you had a chance to visit Lexington?

Doesn't sound like you been by too recently: " Lexington is content to remain in it's insulated, auto-centric Ozzie and Harriet vision of white flight suburbia. "

Lexington, today has many people who recently emigrated from India, China, Russia, Korea and numerous other "exotic" locales

Latino
Estimated 2.27% of residents in Lexington, MA are '.latino.' 2.3%
Black
Estimated 1.51% of residents in Lexington, MA are '.black.' 1.5%
Cauc
Estimated 73.59% of residents in Lexington, MA are '.cauc.' 73.6%
Asian
Estimated 19.88% of residents in Lexington, MA are '.asian.' 19.9%

Some other facts you might not be aware of:
a) Nearly 25% of the population of Lexington was born outside of the US with the majority of those from Asia.
b) We also have a whole lot of people who came to Lexington to live from all around the US.
c) Quite a few people in Lexington use the Minuteman Bikeway to get to Cambridge and specifically to Alewife
d) We file quite a few patents Total of 3433 patent applications in 2008-2012
The US average is about 10 patents /yr / 1000 people -- Lexington has about 22
e) Approximately 1,200 employers within the town -- Headquarters for 28 national companies and 7 publicly traded companies
f) 20,269 employees -- 25% of Lexington's workforce is employed in high-tech and life science occupations
Quite a few people commute into Lexington -- the daytime population in Lexington exceeds the nightime populaion by almost 7,000
g) Over 5,000,000 SF commercial rent-able building area

TOP EMPLOYERS

MIT Lincoln Laboratories
VistaPrint
Shire HGT
BAE Systems
Stride Rite Corporation

I don't see either Ozzie or Harriet in any of the above

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Remember when this thread used to be about this P.O.S. and what we were going to do about it?

Neither do I.

 

[BostonUrbEx]

Every thread just devolves into "Rail just doesn't work, because it won't work in Lexington, therefore everyone needs to have highways forced on them."

 

[datadyne007]

Amazing... the Charlesgate park/boulevard was so beautiful!

 

[Ron Newman]

The left photo is looking east on Commonwealth Ave. from Charlesgate towards Mass. Ave. The second photo is looking northwest towards the Charles River from the corner of Beacon Street and Charlesgate East. These aren't directly comparable scenes.

The main difference between the left photo and what you see today is that Comm. Ave. now has an underpass below Mass. Ave. (And, of course, a lot more trees today.)

 

[ant8904]

Charlie -- since someone finally freed you from "riding round neath the streets of Boston..." -- have you had a chance to visit Lexington?

Doesn't sound like you been by too recently: " Lexington is content to remain in it's insulated, auto-centric Ozzie and Harriet vision of white flight suburbia. "

Lexington, today has many people who recently emigrated from India, China, Russia, Korea and numerous other "exotic" locales

Latino
Estimated 2.27% of residents in Lexington, MA are '.latino.' 2.3%
Black
Estimated 1.51% of residents in Lexington, MA are '.black.' 1.5%
Cauc
Estimated 73.59% of residents in Lexington, MA are '.cauc.' 73.6%
Asian
Estimated 19.88% of residents in Lexington, MA are '.asian.' 19.9%

Some other facts you might not be aware of:
a) Nearly 25% of the population of Lexington was born outside of the US with the majority of those from Asia.
b) We also have a whole lot of people who came to Lexington to live from all around the US.
c) Quite a few people in Lexington use the Minuteman Bikeway to get to Cambridge and specifically to Alewife
d) We file quite a few patents Total of 3433 patent applications in 2008-2012
The US average is about 10 patents /yr / 1000 people -- Lexington has about 22
e) Approximately 1,200 employers within the town -- Headquarters for 28 national companies and 7 publicly traded companies
f) 20,269 employees -- 25% of Lexington's workforce is employed in high-tech and life science occupations
Quite a few people commute into Lexington -- the daytime population in Lexington exceeds the nightime populaion by almost 7,000
g) Over 5,000,000 SF commercial rent-able building area

TOP EMPLOYERS

MIT Lincoln Laboratories
VistaPrint
Shire HGT
BAE Systems
Stride Rite Corporation

I don't see either Ozzie or Harriet in any of the above

First, it sounds like you are relying on Asians to debate how non-Ozzie and Harriet the town is (though I don't know who is Ozzie and Harriet is - but I can infer it means leafy and well-to-do suburbs).

Actually, I take no issue with this at all. Instead, why does it matter if a town is all white or all black or whatever mixed in between. Diversity and transit access should not factor into one another.

----

But I have a larger point here. Like in the other thread I just posted, I have to ask again here is what is the point here? It seems the responses to whighlander is arguing based on the topic that whighlander is arguing that highways is needed and transit doesn't work. But what I can read whighlander is talking all over the place from Lexington from its history to his relation to Boston to yeah.... I don't think everyone here is debating on the same points and topics, again.

So again, let's step back and restate what is being trying to be said.

 

[Ron Newman]

Could we move posts that aren't about the Bowker overpass, Kenmore Square, or Storrow Drive to some other thread?

 

[Peterborough]

Amazing... the Charlesgate park/boulevard was so beautiful!

Part of me loves the big trees and park-space we have now, but seeing the park on comm ave so open and green without trees reminds me of Europe and looks grand. I drive on the Bowker several times a week and would easily take another 2-3 min in traffic to have the park space open again.

Peterborough
http://www.bostontipster.com

 

[Matthew]

Does anyone know what this little area is supposed to be?

 

[whighlander]

Part of me loves the big trees and park-space we have now, but seeing the park on comm ave so open and green without trees reminds me of Europe and looks grand. I drive on the Bowker several times a week and would easily take another 2-3 min in traffic to have the park space open again.

Peterborough
http://www.bostontipster.com

Peterb -- not sure about the date of the first photo -- its quite relevant as Charlesgate and indeed the entire Fens was redone after the Charles River Dam changed the ecosystem and the Muddy River levels

Prior to 1910 the Muddy River and the entire lower Charles River Basin [below Watertown Dam] was tidal and there were still brakish water mudflats at low tide. After the dam's completion -- the entire lower Basin was freshwater and constant level. As a result the Olmstead firm came back and rejiggered things -- new plants and plantings and some redoing of the area around Charles Gate where the Muddy River flows into the Charles.

Later and long before Bowker -- the area was redone again as Storrow Drive was built and new land was created by filling the Charles to compensate

The photo that would be interesting is the post-Storrow, pre-Pike view of the area -- I thinks that the landscape architect at that point was Arthur Shurlef who did the Rose Garden near to the MFA and the athletic fields

here's what Olmstead had in mind for the Fens circa 1887 & a City Map from 1928

Here's a map -- pre-Turnpike -- not to the same scale as the above

 

[Ron Newman]

In that 1887 plan, Comm. Ave. west of Mass. Ave. looks nothing like it does today (or in the left photo). A wide curvy road slices through the middle of the mall. Was that actually ever built?

 

[whighlander]

In that 1887 plan, Comm. Ave. west of Mass. Ave. looks nothing like it does today (or in the left photo). A wide curvy road slices through the middle of the mall. Was that actually ever built?

Ron -- I don't think it was finished as shown in the plan

That whole area evolved at widely varying rates in different sections as development and the filling was underway

I believe that there was a road that connected Commonwealth to the Fens post the Olmstead Plan around the time that Charlesgate East was built

I just located this map from 1899 circa the time that the Chalesgate East was built on a BAC blog
http://bac-alogancd7102.blogspot.com/2008_01_01_archive.html

So -- it looks as if the road existed at least between 1900 and the redo of the Fens area after the Charles River Dam (1910)

Found the answer
1955 aerial photo, just pre-pike and post Storrow
http://www.mapjunction.com/places/Open_BRA/flash/flash4.pl?save=gknight,1164143376

looks as if the curving street existed

 

[Ron Newman]

Now I'm wondering why the state didn't keep the layout shown in the pre-Turnpike map and just rebuild the existing Charlesgate West bridge to go over the new Turnpike. That would have been a lot less disruptive to the parks, and would have achieved the same purpose.

It looks like the pre-Bowker interchange weaved westbound entrance to and westbound exit from Storrow through a little side service road on the left. That could work again today. It also appears to have a nifty little U-turn ramp that allowed eastbound Storrow traffic to reach the Mass. Ave. bridge via the westbound exit ramp.

I'd like to see a map from about 5 years earlier, though -- that one has part of Bowker shown as under construction.

 

[Tombstoner]

anything that could reconnect the Emerald Necklace (i.e., Fens with Commonwealth Ave.) would be wonderful. This is such a pedestrian nightmare.

 

[Charlie_mta]

This is a 1955 aerial of the Bowker overpass site:

Now I'm wondering why the state didn't keep the layout shown in the pre-Turnpike map and just rebuild the existing Charlesgate West bridge to go over the new Turnpike. That would have been a lot less disruptive to the parks, and would have achieved the same purpose.

The Bowker overpass had been on the drawing boards since the late 1940's, and the old MDC siezed on the opportunity in 1963 presented by the Mass Pike construction. The original Storrow Drive construction even included stub ramps for the Bowker overpass. It was all part of the highways everywhere paradigm of the post WW-II era.

 

[Charlie_mta]

Charlie -- since someone finally freed you from "riding round neath the streets of Boston..." -- have you had a chance to visit Lexington?

Doesn't sound like you been by too recently: " Lexington is content to remain in it's insulated, auto-centric Ozzie and Harriet vision of white flight suburbia. "

I see a community that doesn't want rail transit, and doesn't want the kind of easy access from the inner city that rail transit would provide. Which is fine. It's Lexington's choice. But just don't expect more highways into the metro core to mitigate that resistance to an extended transit system.