BU Development Thread

[TomOfBoston]

Yes you have said this before but its been nearly 6 months so the obligatory post was overdue.

Shame on BU for wanting to have a campus instead of a strip mall.

 

[type001]

Suffolk, you're aware that "U" stands for "University", right?

 

[bdurden]

New theater details:

http://www.bu.edu/today/2016/college-of-fine-arts-new-performance-theater/

Still sad about the loss of the Huntington, but the addition of performance space to the River campus is also needed. Nice addition.

 

[FK4]

Shame on BU for wanting to have a campus instead of a strip mall.

Uh, no. I grew up in Brookline and I like the businesses lining Comm. BU is demolishing a bunch of businesses on the main commercial thoroughfare through here. It's not my fault, or anyone else in brookline's, for that matter, that BU picked this area as their campus. The theater looks good but it's a big loss for the street presence on Comm and could be done differently. Like all colleges around here (and everywhere), it's just another institutional building that plunks down on the Main Street and contributes nothing other than to the sub population it serves during limited hours. One more slab along the main drag to turn the lights off at 10pm, adding nothing to anyone not affiliated with the drama department of BU. I'd rather see a building with smaller storefronts rebuilt at the sidewalk level and incorporated in some way, but unfortunately, neither educational not medical institutions around here seem capable of doing this. If BU had their way, all of Comm would be a wasteland of academic buildings, and the stores and bars would be gone. Not cool. And their campus' geography should be their problem to negotiate with the communities in which they exist, not mine to have to bear the consequences of.

 

[whighlander]

Uh, no. I grew up in Brookline and I like the businesses lining Comm. BU is demolishing a bunch of businesses on the main commercial thoroughfare through here. It's not my fault, or anyone else in brookline's, for that matter, that BU picked this area as their campus. The theater looks good but it's a big loss for the street presence on Comm and could be done differently. Like all colleges around here (and everywhere), it's just another institutional building that plunks down on the Main Street and contributes nothing other than to the sub population it serves during limited hours. One more slab along the main drag to turn the lights off at 10pm, adding nothing to anyone not affiliated with the drama department of BU. I'd rather see a building with smaller storefronts rebuilt at the sidewalk level and incorporated in some way, but unfortunately, neither educational not medical institutions around here seem capable of doing this. If BU had their way, all of Comm would be a wasteland of academic buildings, and the stores and bars would be gone. Not cool. And their campus' geography should be their problem to negotiate with the communities in which they exist, not mine to have to bear the consequences of.

FK -- Hypothetically -- you acquire a couple of lots in the midst or next to BU on Comm Ave. -- also hypothetically you are a friend of the Mayor -- so you have carte blanche to propose anything -- then you need to deal with the NIMBYs

Between the several lots there is a roughly 200' x 100' plot with the long side on Comm Ave upon which you are already cleared for 150,000 sq ft FAR=7.5 although you could press for more

We know that you can't stomach walking past any building that isn't fully commercially activated -- so let's see your concept -- in a short description

 

[FK4]

FK -- Hypothetically -- you acquire a couple of lots in the midst or next to BU on Comm Ave. -- also hypothetically you are a friend of the Mayor -- so you have carte blanche to propose anything -- then you need to deal with the NIMBYs

Between the several lots there is a roughly 200' x 100' plot with the long side on Comm Ave upon which you are already cleared for 150,000 sq ft FAR=7.5 although you could press for more

We know that you can't stomach walking past any building that isn't fully commercially activated -- so let's see your concept -- in a short description

Actually, I have more than once called attention the excessive demands for street activation by others on this site. - so no, that's not true. However, in the case of Comm Ave, and in particular, the BU stretch of Comm Ave, the school's development has been and continues to be a slow progression of acquisition and destruction of existing commercial space on an established commercial corridor. Long swathes of Comm are totally dead at night for this reason... they got rid of BK, the brownstones approaching Kenmore have few commericial establishments worth mentioning, and they're gonna obliterate the whole block by EMS sooner or later as well. Now, here they got rid of one of the ultra rare late night eateries - Sicilia's - a place I never liked but at least it was a food option.

What I would like, you ask: well, I would like BU to recognize that independent businesses along Comm Ave that function without the overt squelching institutional control of said U is an asset to the area and that they have an explicit goal and plan to preserve that, and not to turn the entire length of Comm from Kenmore to Packard's into a wall of academic buildings on both sides. And that they produce plans to mitigate the loss of these commercial establishments they are destroying.

 

[whighlander]

Actually, I have more than once called attention the excessive demands for street activation by others on this site. - so no, that's not true. However, in the case of Comm Ave, and in particular, the BU stretch of Comm Ave, the school's development has been and continues to be a slow progression of acquisition and destruction of existing commercial space on an established commercial corridor. Long swathes of Comm are totally dead at night for this reason... they got rid of BK, the brownstones approaching Kenmore have few commericial establishments worth mentioning, and they're gonna obliterate the whole block by EMS sooner or later as well. Now, here they got rid of one of the ultra rare late night eateries - Sicilia's - a place I never liked but at least it was a food option.

What I would like, you ask: well, I would like BU to recognize that independent businesses along Comm Ave that function without the overt squelching institutional control of said U is an asset to the area and that they have an explicit goal and plan to preserve that, and not to turn the entire length of Comm from Kenmore to Packard's into a wall of academic buildings on both sides. And that they produce plans to mitigate the loss of these commercial establishments they are destroying.

FK-- BU started as a fully urban campus -- my father attended immediately Post WWII courtesy of the GI Bill

as opposed to Harvard, MIT or even North Eastern == there was no such thing as a campus, there were just buildings

Oxford U started the same way [circa 1100] -- but it had many hundreds of years to sort out the edges of the Town/Gown -- such as how the colleges connect to the main shopping area Gloucester or George St -- note that when you leave those kinds of streets there are even walls between you as a pedestrian and the insides of the U

Magdalen College circa 15th C and Hythe Bridge St -- circa 1200

but in 1972 all this changed when

Beaver House was erected in 1971–72, designed by the Oxford Architects Partnership

BU is just trying to consolidate and densify its new campus on the core of Comm Ave -- you need to give them some time

 

[FK4]

^Did you read what I first wrote? The fact that BU picked a narrow sliver of land that makes it harder to develop a campus without destroying the nearest commercial corridor is BU's fault, and it should be BU's problem to negotiate a solution that is acceptable to those who live nearby. Sorry, BU. The fact that you have little land does not a decent excuse to knock down everything on Comm Ave make.

And no - you never "give more time" to a big institution - because all institutions do is tear down the mom and pops and erect business-less new facades - or, at best, provide commercial space for a chain establishment. Note that Harvard and other schools are not immune to this accusation - eg, Holyoke Ctr, newer acquisitions...

 

[bdurden]

FK4 you are oversimplifying the issue that BU has with its "sliver" of land. BU existed before two major highways intersected the campus and effectively dissected it. They have had to work around this precious setup for decades and still struggle to connect east, central, west, and south. It's also worth mentioning that they HAVE been working with the city to centralize their buildings as to not further encroach on business districts. That's why you've seen recent developments such as the sale of buildings in Audubon circle as well as the sale of all their assets in Kenmore.

 

[FK4]

FK4 you are oversimplifying the issue that BU has with its "sliver" of land. BU existed before two major highways intersected the campus and effectively dissected it. They have had to work around this precious setup for decades and still struggle to connect east, central, west, and south. It's also worth mentioning that they HAVE been working with the city to centralize their buildings as to not further encroach on business districts. That's why you've seen recent developments such as the sale of buildings in Audubon circle as well as the sale of all their assets in Kenmore.

Yes. They also pulled some sleazy shit with dorms in Brookline and got caught redhanded back in the 90s. And to counter the argument about Soldiers Field Rd and the Pike, 1) SFR doesnt bisect the campus, because it just runs along the river and is riverward of the old seawall - so while unpleasant to river access does not and never cut thru old land 2) the rail line existed long before the Pike did and 3) when the Pike was constructed, enrollment was a fraction of the size.

BU doesnt have to be the enemy here, but it's difficult for any institution to preserve a semblance of commercial diversity. Look at Longwood, looks at MGH, look at Harvard and MIT and NU and Suffolk. They homegenize what previously existed. And freeing up some space in Kenmore doesnt just make me OK with obliterating businesses further outbound. And I have never seen any indication that BU has any intentions of preserving any of the old businesses along Comm... and they own a lot of it. Plus, they're the principle obstructionists to creating some actually reasonable connections between Comm and Beacon Yards/Allston so... No, fuck em.

 

[TomOfBoston]

Maybe you would be happier if all these institutions moved to the suburbs...then there would be room for a lot of commercial activity....except there would be no people to patronize the businesses because they are all in the suburbs.

 

[FK4]

Maybe you would be happier if all these institutions moved to the suburbs...then there would be room for a lot of commercial activity....except there would be no people to patronize the businesses because they are all in the suburbs.

i don't know why the demand that a leviathan institution respect the urban fabric of the city in which they exist, tax free, needs to be so controversial.

And if BU did go to the burbs, there'd be plenty of development - 18 hour schedule development - to pick up the slack.

 

[underground]

Shame on BU for wanting to have a campus instead of a strip mall.

Ground level retail isn't "a strip mall." Is Newbury Street a strip mall?

Maybe you would be happier if all these institutions moved to the suburbs

You're making an assumption that higher ed and ground level interaction are mutually exclusive. They aren't. You don't even have to look passed our own city for an example like Emerson. Even BU itself has examples of good ground level (RIP Taco Bell). In any case, even if you don't want to take those examples, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out how to slap a Starbucks into a ground floor. Seriously, it's low hanging fruit. I can't believe this is a conversation that's gone beyond two comments.

 

[type001]

Ground level retail isn't "a strip mall." Is Newbury Street a strip mall?

We'll then... check and mate.

 

[TomOfBoston]

Ground level retail isn't "a strip mall." Is Newbury Street a strip mall?

No, Newbury Street is a cutesy overpriced street for affluent young people who preach social responsibility and then waste their money on stuff that could most likely be purchased for a lot less at a strip mall.

Before BU Comm Ave was Automobile Row: auto dealerships, parts stores and gas stations. I bought my first car, an AMC Gremlin (!!!!), where BU's EPIC is now located.

 

[underground]

That's a pretty hot take on Newbury.

 

[FK4]

No, Newbury Street is a cutesy overpriced street for affluent young people who preach social responsibility and then waste their money on stuff that could most likely be purchased for a lot less at a strip mall.

Wow. Ok.

Before BU Comm Ave was Automobile Row: auto dealerships, parts stores and gas stations. I bought my first car, an AMC Gremlin (!!!!), where BU's EPIC is now located.

While true that the original Auto-mile was on Comm Ave, that's not true about the specific building in question, nor about the other "tax payer" businesses along the stretch between Essex and Naples. Those have always been small retail. (Edit - can't prove that about the specific buildings, but if they alerted auto related, they still would've been retail and still would've added more to the street presence in my opinion than a big block of a building).



Anyway, it sounds like your preference is to demolish everything along Comm Ave and you're ok with eliminating all diversity along this stretch and replacing it with a solid, both sides of the street wall of institutional buildings. I disagree. And the principles of basic successful urban planning would support my disagreement as well. (Edit - I actually don't mind the theater building - it's just the implications of what it's doing and the long term trend that we are seeing here. I went to to a tiny liberal arts college that owned all the land - and when on campus, you bought food at the school store (that closed early bc the school didn't want to pay to keep it open late), drank at the school bar (ditto) and ate at the cafeteria (ditto). That sucked. This could easily happen on a macro scale of any institution were left to its own devices...)

 

[cca]

No, Newbury Street is a cutesy overpriced street for affluent young people who preach social responsibility and then waste their money on stuff that could most likely be purchased for a lot less at a strip mall.

Yup. Lets get rid of all the nice stuff.

cca

Ps. I think maybe you are having a bad day and don't really mean it.

 

[TomOfBoston]

Automobile Row

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qou6qu4Gz8

 

[boston85]

BU doesnt have to be the enemy here, but it's difficult for any institution to preserve a semblance of commercial diversity. Look at Longwood, looks at MGH, look at Harvard and MIT and NU and Suffolk. They homegenize what previously existed. And freeing up some space in Kenmore doesnt just make me OK with obliterating businesses further outbound. And I have never seen any indication that BU has any intentions of preserving any of the old businesses along Comm... and they own a lot of it. Plus, they're the principle obstructionists to creating some actually reasonable connections between Comm and Beacon Yards/Allston so... No, fuck em.

First, I do not see them destroying any business of importance, they may not be adding to the business corridor or street activation, but that is different from your charges about destroying the business corridor.

In the last decade or so, what business have they really pushed out that actually subtracts from the original business corridor fabric? I graduated from there about a decade ago, so my memory might not be complete. As I recall BU tore down a BK and paved it over with a parking lot, big loss. They built two new buildings off Bay State Road and one on Cummington. Neither of those take away from Common Ave business corridor because they only replaced smaller academic buildings. Their new building next to Morse Auditorium took over a parking lot and over green space, no businesses there. They have not pushed anything out west of the arena, where there is a good density of the existing business corridor. What happened decades ago may be different, but as of late, I do not see it.

This new building, I think would eliminate a parking lot, a tanning salon and Sicilia’s pizza, which is anything but lively and not very popular pizzeria amongst the BU student body. That area of Comm Ave is basically dead space already. The intersection of BU bridge Comm Ave and the I-90 bridge limits the potential for the area and is not ideal space for walk up businesses.
From my view, they have built on underutilized land and have been smart. You may charge that they certainly have not added to the business community, but they are not in that business. What business would do well in that area? Bars and restaurants. But, do you really think the BU board wants to indirectly promote underage or even legal binge drinking or on their own land?

My second point, is why should BU want to connect to Beacon Yards? To the general public, that road connection would be a great asset and improve traffic flow into and out of the area. But how does that benefit BU? A great majority of their students do not have cars. BU does not have any land on that side of the tracks to develop/connect to the campus. The streets for connecting to beacon yards are narrow with a lot of foot traffic between the west campus dorms and off campus house in the Gardner street area. Not great option for connecting streets. It is not BU’s fault that the roads were not designed to be a throughway and there is not incentive for them to go along for others benefits.