Bulfinch Crossing | Congress Street Garage | West End

Re: Gov't Center Garage Redevelopment

Can we vote for "back to the drawing board"?

I've come to the realization that the success of a Boston building is determined by how well the building works in winter. Does it enliven the space? Make the place feel warmer or inviting? Work well in the bleak grey January gloom? (Notice how all of these renderings are shown in sunny summer days.) All of these designs are cold cold cold.

One of the guiding principles of the designs should have been to create (or recreate) Haymarket Sq as an actual place. All of these designs just keep the existing street lines and retain this space as a throughfare rather than public square. I'd put back the circle that used to cap off the Bulfinch Triangle and formed Haymarket Sq. (I'll post pictures when the Boston Historical Society website is working again.)
 
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Re: Gov't Center Garage Redevelopment

When it was still a circle, what was in the middle? A statue? Trees?
 
Re: Gov't Center Garage Redevelopment

Arborway said:
It's nice to see SOM completely ignore the street level.
Click to expand...

Not only do they not even show a rendering of the street level, but one side of the taller tower has a COMPLETELY blank wall even in the rendering. Pathetic.

I still favor the Cook & Fox and Gensler Proposals most. Probably Gensler a bit more, but much of that is due to intrigue at the plaza/street level. I'd need to see a more detailed rendering to base a final decision off of. Right now, it looks interesting... a modern take on non-grid, narrow streets.
 
Re: Gov't Center Garage Redevelopment

I think Cook & Fox runs away with this one. The design is stunning in my opinion, it's very unique. However, I'd like to see some ground level renderings. I also like how they added another building on top of the Greenway. If they go with this design, it'd be cool to see some rooftop restaurants on one of the shorter buildings.

My second favorite design is Gensler's. It's really cool looking and futuristic. Foster's taller building is cool looking, but the short one is such a stump that it makes me dislike the entire design.

I wonder what the heights are for the towers...the Cook & Fox tower looks like it could be over 800 ft. Also, I'd like to see other renderings from different angles.
 
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Re: Gov't Center Garage Redevelopment

Joe points out something missing from these proposals: scaling back the street widths, and reestablishing Haymarket Square as a pedestrian friendly hub.

All of the overly wide streets built during construction of Government Center in the 1960's should be narrowed, and also have some variation in their alignments introduced, so that they aren't the sweeping superhighways they are now.

This photo, looking north, is of the area circa 1949:

haymarket.jpg
 
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Re: Gov't Center Garage Redevelopment

It's so depressing to think that almost all of the buildings in that photo were destroyed by the West End, Government Center, and the Central Artery.
 
Re: Gov't Center Garage Redevelopment

no use crying over spilled milk
 
Re: Gov't Center Garage Redevelopment

The needless destruction of a good portion of a city on the other hand...
 
Re: Gov't Center Garage Redevelopment

Ron, here are some photos that may help figure it out.

There's another photo somewhere that I can't find that is from the South looking North, with the artery under construction on the right. It shows Haymarket Square as it was in 1950 or so.

haymarket.jpg


Above, 1960's?

haymarket2.jpg


circa 1914
 
Re: Gov't Center Garage Redevelopment

The 1914 photo above was the original smaller size of Haymarket Square, but was later expanded when the Sumner Tunnel was built a few decades later later. Here is the expanded Square in 1946, from an article by Ablarc on the Cyburbia website. The view is looking south, with Haymarket Sqaure on the right side of the photo. The widened Cross Street and new (at the time) Sumner Tunnel are also clearly visible:

1946d.jpg
 
Re: Gov't Center Garage Redevelopment

Charlie_mta said:
The 1914 photo above was the original smaller size of Haymarket Square, but was later expanded when the Sumner Tunnel was built a few decades later later. Here is the expanded Square in 1946, from an article by Ablarc on the Cyburbia website.
Click to expand...
Lost track of that. Any chance of a link?
 
Re: Gov't Center Garage Redevelopment

Jesus one goes away for awhile and then something like this comes to town... Over all I would take Foster, but I also like Cook. Cook's main tower is just too much replace that with Fosters main tower an we'd have a winning combo. :)
 
Re: Gov't Center Garage Redevelopment

I think Foster's would look better at where the Winthrop tower is at. Gensler's and Cook's can both work.
 
Re: Gov't Center Garage Redevelopment

Ok, I rarely post here, but here goes my views.

I realized a while ago that Boston is a city of brick and boxes. It is something that is often mocked on this forum. Almost all of the towers in the city have a boxy, flat top, that makes that "plateau" that everyone complains about. As a city, instead of trying to get building drasticly different than the boxes and the brick we should be looking for modern variations on these. By doing this hopefully we will get a building that is a landmark, but still definativly "Boston."

Out of all of the proposals, I think the Cook and Fox and the Gensler proposals do this the best. The Cook and Fox, at least from what I can tell, kind of took two international style skyscrapers and carved them up a little. The curves make it stand out from the rest of Boston's buildings, but not to a point where it becomes overwhelming. With the Gensler I realy like how the size of the buildings appears to be simmilar to the majority of the Financial district buildings, and the flat tops of the towers are in keeping with every other building ner it. Also, the kind of amorphous, rounded shape of the towers make a stunning contrast to the rest of the city.

Ok well there are my two cents on the matter.
 
Re: Gov't Center Garage Redevelopment

If it looks like a pickle, I like it.
 
Re: Gov't Center Garage Redevelopment

Thank you for the old pictures. They show variety and density. Just what a city should be.

We could use a little of that in this development. I know. Probably unlikely.

I support some height here, it seems appropriate, but why these block-filling behemoths? And why a single design theme? Isn't this sight large enough to have two or three architects working on different buildings? Wouldn't that give us a little variety, like we once had? Do we have to keep repeating our mistakes?

Architects give us "pretty" pictures. We're tempted. Then there's the "historic" pictures. Hardly pretty! But tempting nonetheless.

I think we can all agree, we've seen too many pretty renderings lately turn out to be something very different in the flesh.

I hope we can do better.
 
Re: Gov't Center Garage Redevelopment

vanshnookenraggen said:
The SOM kinda reminds me of the Empire State Plaza. /QUOTE]

That's funny! When I was looking at that rendering all I could think was...Albany! I do like it, in a 1962 kind of way. I just don't want it in this spot.

Jimbo, I mean JAK, the pickle should be taller.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Gov't Center Garage Redevelopment

Notice all they traffic in those old pics. The last one has almost no shadows so it must be around mid day. People forget that for a good part of the 20th century Boston was a dying city that most people had long given up for dead.
 
Re: Gov't Center Garage Redevelopment

After checking out the pdf, in which you can zoom in quite a bit to see some additional detail, I think the Gensler design looks the best. Although the Cook and Fox design almost ties it for me. I think Cook and Fox did a nice job fitting their plan in with its surroundings and still have the towers stand out, but I just like the Gensler design more. I’d take the Koolhaas design over Foster's because of its interaction on the street level. I hate the bottom part of the shorter Foster tower. It looks like a parking garage. The SOM design isn't even a contender.
 
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