Bulfinch Crossing | Congress Street Garage | West End

[mass88]

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Uh, let's not kick Gillette out please? They provide jobs manufacturing useful products, and seem quite profitable. We don't have a lot of this kind of industry left.

The Gillette World Shaving Headquarters is a Boston icon. We shouldn't throw them out. It's bad enough they were sold to P&G and some workers were told in order to keep their jobs they would have to move out of state and to matters even worse, they wold have to move to Ohio. Talk about a big downgrade.

 

[stellarfun]

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Not all five percent cuts are created equal. In this instance, there is also a shift from office to residential. So depending on how much revenue from residential the developer anticipates, a project with five percent less square footage could generate the same, or even more revenue.
________________

Anyone who stopped current construction would land the city in bankruptcy court after the lawsuits found for the developer / builder.

 

[datadyne007]

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

I completely agree with shepard and shmessy. We need to evaluate our priorities. This area of Boston especially is about the pedestrian experience, as faneuil hall, the north end, and Greenway are right there. The garage completely ruins that experience right now and we should be focused on something that is tall enough to make sense, but also pays careful attention to the urban quality.

 

[nm88]

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

As someone who believes Boston, Amsterdam, Paris and San Francisco are cities.....and Dubai isn't - - let me just say I am thrilled THAT never got built.

That doesn't add to any urban fabric any more than Detroit's Renaissance Center.

Couldn't agree more. Thank you, Shmessy.

I continue to miss the connection made by so many here: that the quality and reputation of a city is increased by the number of tall buildings. Really? What a city looks like from a cruise ship, a helicopter, or mile away is what makes the city competitively world-class?

We all dig architecture and height is cool. Sometimes. But, come on...

Boston's future is not an architectural wet dream.

Tall buildings? The drama is on the street.

I would wager college kids, business folks, tourists, conventioneers all feel what I felt as a kid and, frankly, still feel today - this walkable, personable, unique city is something special. Do we get a lot wrong, yes. Is the development process awesomely frustrating, yup. Democracy sucks.

People all over the world talk about Boston with the same reverent awe. It's true. Think about it. There are only three other cities in America that people speak of as fondly - New York, New Orleans and San Francisco. And you know the parts everyone loves the most? The low rise Bourbon Streets, Marinas and Villages. Does that make them less world class?

I think Congress Street is a great place for height and something architecturally unique. Will we get it? Not if recent experience is any indication. But even as proposed, taller or not, iconic or not, it will repair a street experience that has needed repair for a long time. And that's good. Because, it seems, that's what we do best.

Again, democracy. Nobody gets all they want.

 

[shmessy]

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

The building complex will be built by private developers. The mbta upgrade is reliant on the government and tax money. That's a big difference, and there's no reason to argue one against the other. They are mutually exclusive. Boston could get both, if only it wanted to.

Obviously. They are in two completely separate planes.

However, the discussion was about the need to build 70+ story buildings in order to goose Boston's GDP and economic competitiveness. Super tall buildings do not jump start GDP or economic competitiveness. Infrastructure does.

The CA/T was a major catalyst for Boston's economic boom and marketshare gains - - not International Place or the W. Hotel. Sometimes people confuse the cause with the symptom.

 

[armpitsOFmight]

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Couldn't agree more. Thank you, Shmessy.

I continue to miss the connection made by so many here: that the quality and reputation of a city is increased by the number of tall buildings. Really? What a city looks like from a cruise ship, a helicopter, or mile away is what makes the city competitively world-class?

We all dig architecture and height is cool. Sometimes. But, come on...

Boston's future is not an architectural wet dream.

Tall buildings? The drama is on the street.

I would wager college kids, business folks, tourists, conventioneers all feel what I felt as a kid and, frankly, still feel today - this walkable, personable, unique city is something special. Do we get a lot wrong, yes. Is the development process awesomely frustrating, yup. Democracy sucks.

People all over the world talk about Boston with the same reverent awe. It's true. Think about it. There are only three other cities in America that people speak of as fondly - New York, New Orleans and San Francisco. And you know the parts everyone loves the most? The low rise Bourbon Streets, Marinas and Villages. Does that make them less world class?

I think Congress Street is a great place for height and something architecturally unique. Will we get it? Not if recent experience is any indication. But even as proposed, taller or not, iconic or not, it will repair a street experience that has needed repair for a long time. And that's good. Because, it seems, that's what we do best.

Again, democracy. Nobody gets all they want.

Yawn. Your speech reminds me of a scene in Braveheart when Mel Gibson is rallying his troops for battle.

Plus, we get a speech like yours every couple months.

 

[armpitsOFmight]

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

 

[palindrome]

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

As someone who believes Boston, Amsterdam, Paris and San Francisco are cities.....and Dubai isn't - - let me just say I am thrilled THAT never got built.

That doesn't add to any urban fabric any more than Detroit's Renaissance Center.

Honest question, but can you provide street renders for the quoted picture, and the new renderings to back your assertion?

 

[Czervik.Construction]

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

I am a firm believer in 80% of something is better than 100% of nothing.

Let's be happy that the current monstrosity is going to be demolished and there will be some new buildings going up. Yes, not as glam as the original plan, but from what I see the designs look ok (however, those green roofs will probably get VE'd out).

Boston with its many adjoining small neighborhoods has a lot of intense NIMBY action to overcome on any project. The fact that this is going through at all, and with a few large towers, we should be happy. But, we never are - we complain about the loss of 75 feet of elevation. The site was zoned for 600' and we are getting 525'. As I mentioned in another thread, Portzamparc's 900 footer in NYC is barely noticeable from the street level when you walk past it, so I don't buy this urban fabric BS. Luckily, that project is coming out nicely, imagine if it was a disaster - it would still loom large over Central Park and sort of ruin CPS.

 

[Arborway]

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

After the aesthetic failure of Waterside Place, I'm more concerned with materials than height.

 

[nm88]

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Yawn. Your speech reminds me of a scene in Braveheart when Mel Gibson is rallying his troops for battle.

Plus, we get a speech like yours every couple months.

Hell, I liked Braveheart. There could be worse comparisons.

 

[JohnAKeith]

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

I can't believe rational people consider the idea of tax abatements to be good public policy.

 

[shmessy]

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

I can't believe rational people consider the idea of tax abatements to be good public policy.

John, I never claimed to be rational.

 

[palindrome]

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

As someone who believes Boston, Amsterdam, Paris and San Francisco are cities.....and Dubai isn't - - let me just say I am thrilled THAT never got built.

That doesn't add to any urban fabric any more than Detroit's Renaissance Center.

shmessy,

can you please elaborate on this? I am not contesting it, I am genuinely interested in understanding what this new proposal has over the quoted picture in terms of urban fabric.

 

[shmessy]

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

shmessy,

can you please elaborate on this? I am not contesting it, I am genuinely interested in understanding what this new proposal has over the quoted picture in terms of urban fabric.

Fair question, Palindrome.

If one looks at the comparative renders in post #1440, from the first to the third:

The earlier "bolder" plan looks (and I understand this is merely opinion) far out of context to the area and the two tall buildings seem much further apart (hence more gap and dead space) than the newer render. It reminded me of the widely spaced out supertalls in Dubai or Brasilia or Houston. IMO, the greatness of an effective urban fabric lies in density - - a more cohesive street wall. I'll take Manhattan over Dubai anyday.

 

[Ron Newman]

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

People all over the world talk about Boston with the same reverent awe. It's true. Think about it. There are only three other cities in America that people speak of as fondly - New York, New Orleans and San Francisco.

No love for Chicago here?

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

People all over the world talk about Boston with the same reverent awe. It's true. Think about it. There are only three other cities in America that people speak of as fondly - New York, New Orleans and San Francisco.

Wow. What a beautifully ignorant argument. You really need to travel.

 

[Beton Brut]

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Chicago's a great city, Ron. Architecturally, it functions on a couple of levels. There's the amazing historical richness (Burnham, Richardson, Sullivan, Wright, Mies, Goldberg, SOM, etc). Then there are the neighborhoods (Wicker Park, Wrigleyville) and streetcar suburbs (Oak Park, River Forest), full of handsome homes, even if you dislike Wright's work.

The caveat I have about Chicago is the urban experience in the Loop after hours. It's a barren business district, bereft of activity after sundown.

 

[Matthew]

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Same problem as Financial District here...

 

[prodigy92]

Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Chicago's a great city, Ron. Architecturally, it functions on a couple of levels. There's the amazing historical richness (Burnham, Richardson, Sullivan, Wright, Mies, Goldberg, SOM, etc). Then there are the neighborhoods (Wicker Park, Wrigleyville) and streetcar suburbs (Oak Park, River Forest), full of handsome homes, even if you dislike Wright's work.

The caveat I have about Chicago is the urban experience in the Loop after hours. It's a barren business district, bereft of activity after sundown.

I know Chicago is a live city and has a great night life. Alot of action on street level