Canopy by Hilton (née Haymarket Hotel) | Blackstone St | Parcel 9 | Greenway

Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

fattony said:
To be clear, these renderings of Boston Public Market is a renovation of the existing building adjacent to Parcel 9. Right? The Parcel 9 building is the hotel with the "haymarket" sign on top (and yet another market that is not this market)
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This is the renovation of an existing building. Don't know how many sq ft 'the yet another market' will be, other than it is described as 1-2 stories
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Yep, it sounds like they are ready to do/continue the full renovation of Haymarket, while the addition they want to put on it (the part that will go from Haymarket towards the greenway) is ready to start but full funding is not.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

I catch the bus there everyday. I've been wondering what they were clearing the space for. Looks like it will also be good for people waiting for buses and folks coming right out of the station.

This is going to be awesome, especially given that is between the Parcel 9 development and the soon-to-be-complex at garage.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

timsox6 said:
Yep, it sounds like they are ready to do/continue the full renovation of Haymarket, while the addition they want to put on it (the part that will go from Haymarket towards the greenway) is ready to start but full funding is not.
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Timsox there are in fact 4 loosely related existing or to-be entities that all are in the business of renovating or building to create the "Market District" [soonest to latest]:

1) Faneuil Hall / Quincy Market -- some planned renovations with significant changes in the vendors and some of the public programs to make it more than just a pure tourist venue

2) Haymarket -- continue to function as low-cost produce and such market -- to get less 3rd World-ish with some semi-permanent shelters, lighting, and a storage area, waste collection, etc.

3) Boston Public Market -- the completion of the lower floor of the building [Parcel 7 Garage] that was constructed as part of the Big Dig with the Haymarket T Station in the basement -- that's the one with the rendering in the story in the Globe -- limited to stuff produced by Mass & some other New England Farmers, Ranchers, Fisherman

4) Parcel 9 -- to be a major building [Hotel] with some sort of specialty crafty market on the ground floor possibly including some fancy prepared foods and some support for the adjacent Haymarket area on Blackstone St.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

I was walking through this area on Saturday night - it's a disgrace. Once you cross the North End parks from the Hanover Street area you're in a complete dead zone. Blackstone Street at non-market times looks like the South Bronx at its worst, and the stretch of "Greenway" between Cross Street and the Dock Square (Hard Rock Cafe) garage is essentially a freeway. It's astounding that such a massive dead zone exists just footsteps from Quincy Market.

The new food market, in combination with the Parcel 9 Blackstone Block development, will absolutely transform this area - but it will still be held back by the disastrous Greenway ramps parcel I mentioned and the disgusting Dock Square garage.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Shepard said:
The new food market, in combination with the Parcel 9 Blackstone Block development, will absolutely transform this area - but it will still be held back by the disastrous Greenway ramps parcel I mentioned and the disgusting Dock Square garage.
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We have to figure out how to afford to build over the ramps parcels. That one was going to be a YMCA, I believe.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

I can't remember what the original plan for that ramp was, but Boston History Museum was the last pitch. The Y was supposed to go over the ramp to the north in front of the GC Garage. Personally, how we thought two not for profits were going to be able to pull off the cost of air rights construction is beyond me.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Let's not forget the Mass Horticultural Society's Winter Garden for Parcel 22 at Dewey Square. A pitch I actually worked on many years ago.

We can all appreciate the thought behind dedicating the available land to civic and community uses represented by these not-for profits given that public funding paid for the transformation of the space.

But the cost of development for these parcels is never going to be financed by these kinds of institutions. Better to sell them to the highest bidders gain the highest value for the parcels, retain the open space where appropriate and save the civic uses for better suited areas.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

underground said:
I can't remember what the original plan for that ramp was, but Boston History Museum was the last pitch. The Y was supposed to go over the ramp to the north in front of the GC Garage. Personally, how we thought two not for profits were going to be able to pull off the cost of air rights construction is beyond me.
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You are correct -- the YMCA parcel is further north.

This was always a Boston History Museum proposal, with some original pretty amazing architecture at the conceptual stage. All completely un-fundable, particularly as air rights.

I agree that these should be sold and developed by someone who can make them work. I believe the challenge is that they are height restricted because of the placement over the tunnel, so probably hard to sell to a commercial entity. I believe that was part of why not-for-profits were chosen to develop these -- they are not commercially viable parcels.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

How about throwing up some five or six story faux-buildings with Potemkin facades over them? Add in some real ground floor retail or cafe features where the ramps aren't right there at the sidewalk. Maybe it's silly but anything to fill the urban fabric here would be a massive improvement.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Could construction on the scale of the victor, one canal, or the merano work here? around 8-12 stories?
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

JeffDowntown said:
You are correct -- the YMCA parcel is further north.

This was always a Boston History Museum proposal, with some original pretty amazing architecture at the conceptual stage. All completely un-fundable, particularly as air rights.

I agree that these should be sold and developed by someone who can make them work. I believe the challenge is that they are height restricted because of the placement over the tunnel, so probably hard to sell to a commercial entity. I believe that was part of why not-for-profits were chosen to develop these -- they are not commercially viable parcels.
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Jeff -- I believe that the plans for the various museum and institutional developments went far enough ahead that the underpinnings for the building were cast into the walls of the tunnels

There were limits to the height of the structures -- 4 or 5 stories if I remember correctly
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

whighlander said:
Jeff -- I believe that the plans for the various museum and institutional developments went far enough ahead that the underpinnings for the building were cast into the walls of the tunnels

There were limits to the height of the structures -- 4 or 5 stories if I remember correctly
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So I guess the question is what form of development would be commercially viable at 4-5 stories, in the core of downtown Boston? And add in strange access restrictions due to the ramps. Seems like a good puzzle for the board!
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

JeffDowntown said:
So I guess the question is what form of development would be commercially viable at 4-5 stories, in the core of downtown Boston? And add in strange access restrictions due to the ramps. Seems like a good puzzle for the board!
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One could be used for indoor rock climbing

another for Court Tennis

Both would provide the year round activity centers that Riff fears are missing

Both are also relatively cheap construction -- just a big open tall box with a few peripheral smaller spaces for changing and supervision
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

whighlander said:
One could be used for indoor rock climbing

another for Court Tennis

Both would provide the year round activity centers that Riff fears are missing

Both are also relatively cheap construction -- just a big open tall box with a few peripheral smaller spaces for changing and supervision
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Great ideas. Interior activities centers of various forms. Perfect to make the Greenway more winter compatible.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Small update on this project. Two story increase, presumably to put mechanicals on top of the hotel. I still prefer the Blackstone concept.

From article:
Key changes from the original design start with the height of the hotel increasing to just over 100 feet, adding two additional floors. With a possible range between 180 rooms to 225 rooms, the flexibility lies in finding the right mix between the number of rooms, and square footage per room. In addition to resurfacing Blackstone Street, the added rooms also translate to added rent for MassDOT.
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Hopefully the meeting's presentation will eventually be available.
 
Re: Parcel 9 - The Greenway

Haymarket site bears fruit

Developer files plan for food pavilion, hotel



By: Donna Goodison
Wednesday, October 15, 2014

Plans filed yesterday for a Haymarket hotel and market/retail pavilion provide a new look at the proposed transformation of a vacant state-owned parcel of land and a key part of Boston’s growing market district.

Normandy Real Estate Partners and Harbinger Development plan to build the 10-story, 225-room hotel and 25,000-square-foot two-story glass pavilion on the Massachusetts Department of Transportation site known as Parcel 9, between Blackstone Street and the Rose F. Kennedy Greenway.

The European-style market will offer basic and specialty imported foods to complement the adjacent New England-focused Boston Public Market slated to open next summer over the Haymarket MBTA station and the longtime outdoor Haymarket pushcart vendors who sell cheap produce on Fridays and Saturdays.

MassDOT selected Morristown, N.J.-based Normandy and Wellesley’s Harbinger to develop and lease the block-long site last summer over Boston’s Cresset Group and DeNormandie Cos. The latter proposed a 10-story apartment building, restaurants and food market selling supermarket items. Normandy representatives were unavailable for comment.

The removal of the raised highway for the Central Artery/Third Harbor Tunnel project raised the profile of the now very visible vacant parcel. “(It) presents an opportunity not only to expand the market district, but also to activate this portion of the Greenway,” documents filed with the Boston Redevelopment Authority state. “By coupling the market with the hotel, the public nature of the site will be amplified by the 24-hour activity of the hotel and other public programs such as restaurants, a community room, a fitness room and potentially (an indoor) pool.”

Chicago architectural firm Perkins + Will designed the red brick facade of the moderately priced, L-shaped, 115,000-square-foot hotel so it would be a “background building” to highlight the market/retail pavilion, according to the project filing. The pavilion will have large roll-up and French doors to “create a seamless transition from the market hall to the outdoor (Haymarket) vendor area.”

The project provides for more than $2 million in improvements for Haymarket vendors, including reconstruction of Blackstone Street, new awnings and indoor trash, storage and rest room facilities.

Normandy hopes to start the project, which still requires permitting, late next year. No parking is included in the project, which is subject to a Downtown Boston parking freeze, but the hotel will have valet services.
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Boston Herald
 
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